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AdrianX
..yeah.
Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Posts: 286
Location: Batangas City,Philippines
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 Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:54 am Post subject: ..the forgotten(?) features and changes |
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..have the OHR developers forgotten these would be features/changes?:
1. the counter% stat
2. the new palette
..i hope not..  |
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msw188
Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 1041
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Hey man, I waited multiple updates (which translated into multiple YEARS) for the bitset to disable the heroes' extra hits stat. And in any case, I think that there are some other bugs which still hamper actual gameplay features. In particular, I'm thinking of some of the targetting features I (and others; see bugs 5, 33, 38, 74 on Bugzilla) have been complaining about.
Other bugs I'd rather see looked into include the bugs concerning wraparound maps (I think TMC is working on fixing these), parties with the first slot empty (see bug 59; I had another problem with this, but I can't remember how it happened, and it involved a plotscript...), and keypresses (PHC's recent problem, my bug 111).
Okay, that sounded like a lot of demands. I just want to conclude by saying that I think that the programmers have been doing an incredible job, and nearly every problem introduced with Serendipity has been fixed. Seriously awesome, guys. |
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PlayerOne
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 143
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:04 am Post subject: |
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This release was very much a consolidation. Most of it was bug-fixes. The few new features that were introduced were mainly things Mike wanted to use in his One Map game. 
The wraparound map fixes nearly made it, but had to left out when some problems arose.
The new palette: was there any discussion about this anywhere? I've had a look at it, and it seems a bit strange. Some of the greys aren't grey, and there are two mystery colours in the corner. The default palette is definitely horrible though; it's difficult to find sensible gradients in it. I would like to see primary colours remaining in the low numbers, to make things like selecting text colour with the arrow keys a bit easier.
There are two stages/options for the palette change, though: 1) Just change the master palette. 2) Make it easier to import palettes without messing up the interface colours. |
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| PlayerOne wrote: |
The new palette: was there any discussion about this anywhere? I've had a look at it, and it seems a bit strange. Some of the greys aren't grey, and there are two mystery colours in the corner. The default palette is definitely horrible though; it's difficult to find sensible gradients in it. I would like to see primary colours remaining in the low numbers, to make things like selecting text colour with the arrow keys a bit easier.
There are two stages/options for the palette change, though: 1) Just change the master palette. 2) Make it easier to import palettes without messing up the interface colours. |
Yes. The first step is to make the interface handle new palettes without becoming unusable. This is the hardest part. NeoTA has some good plans for this, so we will want to get him involved.
The new palette is a good one, but it does need a little rearrangement. It will go in OHRRPGCE.NEW and will only apply to new games (but people who feel daring can import it manually into existing games)
Okay. I am really leaving now. See Y'all Monday! |
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NeoTA
Idiomatic Nomenclature
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| PlayerOne wrote: | | Some of the greys aren't grey, |
Deliberate; it usually works better (and works with a wider range of colors than plain greys)
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and there are two mystery colours in the corner.
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Top right? What is the mystery? Those colors have nowhere else to be.
| Quote: | | I would like to see primary colours remaining in the low numbers, to make things like selecting text colour with the arrow keys a bit easier. |
Like this? It's a bit strange, to me. These ergonomic considerations are difficult to balance.
Or maybe more like this:
The palette, as I mentioned to James, is designed to provide large gradients whilst being a good choice across a range of coloring styles and images (and I benchmarked it versus others to make sure it did.). The gradients included range between 16 - 32 entries in length (depending on how you combine them), with colors chosen to maximize swappability (ie. that palette includes roughly 32 ~24-color gradients, though you could make many more than that out of it.)
I could rotate the position of the greys now; something prevented me in a previous version.
.. *looks*.. It's that subsequent rows would get offset if I did, like this:
which disconcerts me, color-choosing-wise.
Benchmark info: I just did another benchmark of coverage and accuracy.
Using a variety of 24bit inputs (digital, photo, and vector), the average coverage (percentage of the total colors in the palette used by the indexized result) was:
Old default : 33%
Old new palette: 50.9%
New new palette: 51.5% (the one in bugzilla)
In addition, the old default tended to display a much worse degree of color mismatch (making things too bright, turning desaturated areas into grey) and performed markedly worse on antialiased areas. |
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PlayerOne
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 143
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:03 am Post subject: |
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That's interesting. I just wondered how it had been arrived at: whether the colours were picked by eye, or whether there was some mathematical basis, or whatever. I still find the pinkish greys a little off-putting, and I wonder if the darkest shade of each colour is needed - I can't really tell them apart on my screen.
But anyway, improved import capabilities and more flexibility will make it easier not to use the default palette whatever the default actually is, so I'm definitely planning to get to work on this. I'll put some proposals together for the mailing list. There's more to it than there seems, really. |
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NeoTA
Idiomatic Nomenclature
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| PlayerOne wrote: | | whether the colours were picked by eye |
Yes, for picking switch points
| Quote: | | some mathematical basis |
Yes (the colors were picked from the Amiga 4096 color colorspace (16 steps of R G B)). I smoothed them later, removing overly similar ones and replacing with extra intermediate steps for that gradient.
I balanced the hue coverage pretty carefully too.
.. and also, some of the gradients were based on (analog-ish) gradients that i had prebuilt in gimp and colorized a set of greys using.
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, or whatever. I still find the pinkish greys a little off-putting, and I wonder if the darkest shade of each colour is needed - I can't really tell them apart on my screen.
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Put them next to black and you will. (also, your monitor contrast or brightness is too low to get good detail across the range dark->light, probably)
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But anyway, improved import capabilities and more flexibility will make it easier not to use the default palette whatever the default actually is,
so I'm definitely planning to get to work on this. I'll put some proposals together for the mailing list. There's more to it than there seems, really. |
Yeah, we could put together some variants into a pack. For celshaded graphics there could be a set with 42x6-color swatches (or even 64x4), EGA64 can be interesting, .... It's really a matter that is very individual in requirements. The ability to switch master palettes would also be nice (night/day effects are more flexible like that, and colorswapping scenery based on which map you're on would also be much easier.) |
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Mr B
Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Posts: 382
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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I would be interested in seeing "sytem day" and "system year" commands. Seemingly gratuitous, I know, but I could use them...
Also, I'd vastly appreciate a method to move to the last graphic in the enemy graphics and attack graphics editing menus. Having to move through seventy sets of graphics just to get to the last one is a little tedious. Being able to move "up" from the top would be grand.
I haven't downloaded Tirgoviste yet (I absolutely must focus on my current project), but it sounds like a real improvement. Pre-emptive thanks! |
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NeoTA
Idiomatic Nomenclature
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr B wrote: | Also, I'd vastly appreciate a method to move to the last graphic in the enemy graphics and attack graphics editing menus. Having to move through seventy sets of graphics just to get to the last one is a little tedious. Being able to move "up" from the top would be grand.
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I think this might be better done by mirroring the way that the "<- enemy 4 ->" type of menu item lets you type in numbers as well as just moving one at a time. Then you could move to a specific one. Moving to the end would be slightly slower (type 99999; most people would only need to type 9999 or 999 or even 99.).
Last edited by NeoTA on Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PlayerOne
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 143
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr B wrote: | | I would be interested in seeing "sytem day" and "system year" commands. Seemingly gratuitous, I know, but I could use them... |
I wanted that, for my one and only game to date. I just wanted it to be set today + 500 years, for no particular reason. |
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Mike Caron
Technomancer
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 889
Location: Why do you keep asking?
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Mr B
Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Posts: 382
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| NeoTA wrote: | | Mr B wrote: | Also, I'd vastly appreciate a method to move to the last graphic in the enemy graphics and attack graphics editing menus. Having to move through seventy sets of graphics just to get to the last one is a little tedious. Being able to move "up" from the top would be grand.
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I think this might be better done by mirroring the way that the "<- enemy 4 ->" type of menu item lets you type in numbers as well as just moving one at a time. Then you could move to a specific one. Moving to the end would be slightly slower (type 99999; most people would only need to type 9999 or 999 or even 99.). |
Yes, but in this menu I can simply press the left arrow (starting on enemy 0), and it will take me to the last enemy. It's extremely convenient. |
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NeoTA
Idiomatic Nomenclature
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| Mr B wrote: | | NeoTA wrote: | | Mr B wrote: | Also, I'd vastly appreciate a method to move to the last graphic in the enemy graphics and attack graphics editing menus. Having to move through seventy sets of graphics just to get to the last one is a little tedious. Being able to move "up" from the top would be grand.
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I think this might be better done by mirroring the way that the "<- enemy 4 ->" type of menu item lets you type in numbers as well as just moving one at a time. Then you could move to a specific one. Moving to the end would be slightly slower (type 99999; most people would only need to type 9999 or 999 or even 99.). |
Yes, but in this menu I can simply press the left arrow (starting on enemy 0), and it will take me to the last enemy. It's extremely convenient. |
I think there are cyclical numeric selectors whose behaviour could be mimiced.
Just implementing your idea by itself would be counter-intuitive. Also, are you sure what you want might not be better implemented by a shortcut that adds graphics at the end regardless of current position (I assume that is why you want to go to the end usually)? |
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TMC
On the Verge of Insanity
Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 3240
Location: Matakana
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| NeoTA wrote: |
The ability to switch master palettes would also be nice (night/day effects are more flexible like that, and colorswapping scenery based on which map you're on would also be much easier.) |
I would like to add the ability import multiple master palettes and switch between them, but I might have to wait for whatever changes Simon is making to support customisable UI colours first.
_________________
"It is so great it is insanely great." |
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