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Abilities, Personality, and what if there wasn't "FIGHT
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msw188




Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 1041

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'good' thing about the fight option, from an OHR game author's standpoint, is that it is the option that is most easily allowed to be customizable to the player. All they have to do is equip something different, and the fight option can be wholly different. The boomerang is a great example, but I think that much more could be done with this. Elemental weapons are always a good idea as well, or weaons that take advantage of enemy types. The problem is that in the OHR, it is impossible to change equipment inside of battle (a very serious problem, to me).

As has been said, the 'fight' command is only a very bad thing when it is clearly enough to get by with every character fighting. I tried to avoid this in my game, but was only partially successful (I'm trying to be more conscious of it in my next game). One of the things in my game that might be of interest (Iblis seemed to think it was a good idea, anyway) is my 'morph' hero. Actually there are two of them. They are little floating dots that morph into various things in battle to fight. Being little dots, they cannot equip anything. If you choose the standard fight option, they just hit the enemy with their miniscule body and the attack is set to never hurt more than 1 HP. I have been trying to think of a good way to have a morph in the party in my next game, preferably early (in my current game, you do not get to use the morphs until at least five hours in or so).
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My first completed OHR game, Tales of the New World:
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J.A.R.S.
In umbram deo, ex nihilo...




Joined: 11 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reminds me of my hero Jordy, or did I get your description wrong? Do you actually choose the morph or is it random?
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msw188




Joined: 02 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You choose the morph. It only lasts one turn. The item-morph learns new morphs by using the item in question; the monster-morph learns new morphs by gaining levels. It is unfortunate, but I am seriously intimidated by the plotscript necessary to allow it to learn morphs after battling the monster in question.
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My first completed OHR game, Tales of the New World:
http://castleparadox.com/gamelist-display.php?game=161

This website link is for my funk/rock band, Euphonic Brew:
www.euphonicbrew.com
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Inspiration
Anti-Protagonist




Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

msw188 wrote:
You choose the morph. It only lasts one turn. The item-morph learns new morphs by using the item in question; the monster-morph learns new morphs by gaining levels. It is unfortunate, but I am seriously intimidated by the plotscript necessary to allow it to learn morphs after battling the monster in question.

What you could try to do is give each monster its own unique attack which sets a tag on.
Say, you're battling a Minotaur. All of the Minotaur's attacks would turn tag:Minotaur Morph, on. Then, after the battle, you would check for the tag and then teach the spell to your dots.

What I've been trying is to just give one of my characters morphs as he gains levels. These morphs come in the form of new spells, which, when used, will add an item to the player's inventory. When the item is used, it swaps out the character, adds in a morphed version, and adds a 'revert' item. However, under a morphed version, the character is unable to learn new morphs and skills. The morphed version also starts out powerful, but loses all of its stats by the time it reaches level 99. The disappointing thing is that instead of rapidly losing its stats like I wanted it to, he only loses about 3 points each level.
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msw188




Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 1041

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot about the new tag features with the attacks. That actually makes the script in question quite simple. Thanks so much, Inspiration (heh heh, your name works pretty well).

I really like your idea. Maybe you could get a better effect if you make the morph in question start a very high level. Then you have a script so that every time it levels up, it obtains an enormous amount of EXP to offset the fact that it would normally need a REALLY enormous amount of EXP for the next level. I wish we had more abilities to customize the levelling system in the OHR, though.
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My first completed OHR game, Tales of the New World:
http://castleparadox.com/gamelist-display.php?game=161

This website link is for my funk/rock band, Euphonic Brew:
www.euphonicbrew.com
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Inspiration
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're very welcome for the tip.

I really wanted to avoid having to use any scripts regarding leveling, but it seems that I'll have no choice. I might just force him to level up a few times after each battle.
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TwinHamster
♫ Furious souls, burn eternally! ♫




Joined: 07 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inspiration wrote:
You're very welcome for the tip.

I really wanted to avoid having to use any scripts regarding leveling, but it seems that I'll have no choice. I might just force him to level up a few times after each battle.

...Or you could simply subtract some stats after each battle using 'set hero stat'.
It'll probably be a little less messy than trying to figure out a formula to ensure that the character levels a certain number of times after each battle.
In fact, I think the only way to guarantee that the hero levels is if you use exponents, which I don't believe you can do right now.
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pharo212




Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simple, with one use items like shuriken.
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Raekuul
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Joined: 31 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pharo212: ?

Everyone else: ???

In all honesty, what I'm doing with my newest idea is one character with just the fight option and a world of weapons at his disposal (once he finds them, of course), and one character that, while she can only use one weapon, she is an adept at healing and status affliction magics.

Side note: Any way to disable the item option in battle for specific characters?
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Newbie_Power




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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Side note: Any way to disable the item option in battle for specific characters?
I wish. What can be done is just make all (or most) items unusable in battle, and make a separate item battle menu with learned commands that use items as the cost.

I actually haven't tried that, though, so I don't know how well of a method that actually works.
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msw188




Joined: 02 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with NP's suggestion is that your menu can only then hold 24 different item-attacks at once. I've already filed this as a feature request on Bugzilla; I think it would be really nice.

I am going to try to release a demo of my new game as soon as the levelMP bug is fixed, and you can see how I have tried to get around the OHR's item system. It isn't the prettiest thing in the world, but it works. The before and after battle scripts are surprisingly short for how much arm-twisting they pull off, if I may state my opinion of my own work for a moment.

EDIT: minor clarification
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My first completed OHR game, Tales of the New World:
http://castleparadox.com/gamelist-display.php?game=161

This website link is for my funk/rock band, Euphonic Brew:
www.euphonicbrew.com
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J.A.R.S.
In umbram deo, ex nihilo...




Joined: 11 May 2005
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Location: Under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raekuul wrote:
pharo212: ?

Everyone else: ???

In all honesty, what I'm doing with my newest idea is one character with just the fight option and a world of weapons at his disposal (once he finds them, of course), and one character that, while she can only use one weapon, she is an adept at healing and status affliction magics.

Side note: Any way to disable the item option in battle for specific characters?


Then you aren't really using the typical fight command. Its assuming that each of your sub weapons has advantages and disadvantages against certain monster types and has some secondary effect (paralyze, doom, poison, blindness, etc) much like mystic quest. Mysic quest had magic and attack, but you could attack from an array of like 5 or 6 weapons, which was pretty amazing. Unfortunately, and i advise to check it out, you couldn't help but use only 3 of these weapons:
1 - The thoughest which at any time seemed to be the latest axe or sword (and once, something else)
2 - the only one which could attack many enemies (bombs?!)
3 - The status affliction item (claw) and even then few would use it, but a skilled player might be tempted to use its 'instant death %' against common foes.

Even by retaining these 3 weapons only, i don't think they represent the 'fight command' well, but its all a matter of perspective. In my perspective, the fight command in most rpgs (although there is the ability to change weapon in most ff) is aimed at dealing regular damages with no cost. While you don't really bring up a cost, you bring options, which is what the fight command doesn't normally have. I think your design looks cool though, you're focussing on few things, but expanding from there, precisely, you've done what I wanted: you are breaking the fight command in many different subcommands that are mainly distinct weapons.
Cheers!
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Newbie_Power




Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can now give weapons a working cost, so you can effectively remove a costless attack if you want.
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J.A.R.S.
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Newbie_Power wrote:
You can now give weapons a working cost, so you can effectively remove a costless attack if you want.


a cost like decreasing stamina per use?
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TwinHamster
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J.A.R.S. wrote:
Newbie_Power wrote:
You can now give weapons a working cost, so you can effectively remove a costless attack if you want.


a cost like decreasing stamina per use?


Can now be performed. Yes.
However, what are you supposed to do when you can't pay the cost?

If it's going to have a (assuming stamina is going to be the equivalent to MP?) cost, what makes it any more different from an offensive spell?

I really like the fight command's function in Surlaw Armageddon where I believe it does some small damage, but it also restores your MP by a little bit so you can use spells after a certain period.

This forces the player to use FIGHT, but it also prevents itself from giving the player a hard time.
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