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Smeargle
Joined: 09 Jun 2008 Posts: 25
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: mp system |
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The current system for mp supported by the ohr makes it so you try not to use magic unless you have to, so you have it for the end of dungeon boss, since I personally like to be able to use magic when I want and not have to worry about running out mp I have been trying to think of a system that would do away with that.
What I have come up with is that your mages only get like 10 - 20 mp and spells only cost 1-3 mp then after every battle you get all of your mp back, after the battle. This way would make the battle a lot more strategic but once you got the Super powerful spell that can kill enemies in one or two hits they will just spam that all of the time.
Then what I could do is make a dual mp system where damaging spells use normal mp and strategic spells use restorative mp, but that is really hard to implement in the ohr and you would still have to hold back on damaging spells.
If you have any ways to make my idea better or a completely new idea please post! |
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Newbie_Power

Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 1762
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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There's no real magic numbers or anything that will decide what the best amount of limited MP or restorative MP you can have.
The idea is fine, but if you're worried about balance, that only comes from strenuous testing and constant adjustments, and consideration of every other factor, such as how useful non-mages are, how dangerous enemies are and how effective magic is compared to normal physical attacks, etc.
Also, if strategic spells use restorative MP, that's an opening for basically unlimited healing in a dungeon (unless you face enemies that can kill you in a single battle), so you may want to place healing spells under limited MP as well. If you have a reason for healing spells being unlimited, such as random encounters being very strong, then that would be okay. _________________
TheGiz> Am I the only one who likes to imagine that Elijah Wood's character in Back to the Future 2, the kid at the Wild Gunman machine in the Cafe 80's, is some future descendant of the AVGN? |
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Smeargle
Joined: 09 Jun 2008 Posts: 25
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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At the moment I am not so worried about the specific numbers as I am the concept,
about the healing ,that could be a problem. You could make it so that the healing spells when used outside of battle take away from the one-time mp or just make it entirely unusable out of battle. (Which I don't personally think is a good idea I'm just throwing out ideas.)
What I trying to do is think of a way where the run to the boss is as fun as the boss itself and not just hitting flee and hoping you don't get hit. |
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Newbie_Power

Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 1762
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | At the moment I am not so worried about the specific numbers as I am the concept, | Any concept can be made to work properly. You simply have to do well in implementation and consider other aspects that may be affected.
For example, the game I'm working on restores 1/3rd of current HP and MP after battle. The idea is to reward players who preserve their HP better. To counter item useage making this system pointless, I limit the number of uses of items to 3 (this number may change), and only increase the useage count by 1 after every battle (can't go higher than 3). This sounds limiting, but end the end it'll heavily depend on how I balance MP cost of spells and how strong enemies are.
Making random encounters fun can be difficult, but the approach I am currently pointing at is try to allow random battles to be ended in just a couple of turns. Most people hate walking two steps then fighting a random battle that takes two minutes to finish. Even if your battles end quickly, that doesn't mean they have to be simple or dumbed down. Magic spells could be required to end a battle quickly, or enemies that will die quickly can still do some sort of damage that actually matters over time as you fight more battles, etc... There isn't a single way to do this, but I'm kind of throwing out my own approach, though you may have your own preferences as to how you want your game to be played, since you may not prefer such fast pacedness as I do. _________________
TheGiz> Am I the only one who likes to imagine that Elijah Wood's character in Back to the Future 2, the kid at the Wild Gunman machine in the Cafe 80's, is some future descendant of the AVGN? |
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Smeargle
Joined: 09 Jun 2008 Posts: 25
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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I see what you mean, but in order to make said concept work you have to know what it is first. I haven't decided exactly what I am going to do and want to see what everyone else's ideas are. Your idea to partially restore hp and mp is actually pretty good because if you do well you will gain hp and mp to the point where you would not have to worry, I like it. If I were doing it that way I might do away with "potions" altogether especially if you have anything like a White Mage. I wonder if I could use my Idea above so that it is partial-restoring mp and full-restoring mp |
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Newbie_Power

Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 1762
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Your idea to partially restore hp and mp is actually pretty good because if you do well you will gain hp and mp to the point where you would not have to worry, I like it. | Try to build off of your MP system, rather than switching to what I am doing. I was using my HP/MP Restore system as an example of how I have to adjust everything else to take it into consideration, not as an alternative to what you are wanting to do.
Quote: | If I were doing it that way I might do away with "potions" altogether especially if you have anything like a White Mage. | I already considered this. Potions cannot be used in-battle, unless they are designed to do so. _________________
TheGiz> Am I the only one who likes to imagine that Elijah Wood's character in Back to the Future 2, the kid at the Wild Gunman machine in the Cafe 80's, is some future descendant of the AVGN? |
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Smeargle
Joined: 09 Jun 2008 Posts: 25
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Well what I am going for is some kind of system where there are two kinds of mp one is for spells and I might implement that as normal (or maybe utilize some of your ideas) but I also want something like "skills" where all the classes have different ones that they learn on level up and the mp for that is restored at every battle, these skills would be more strategic, and not so much attacking.
But the reason I started this was not just to fine tune my ideas but to see what other unique magic systems they have or think of different ways to do things.
Don't think that I don't get your point, I am just trying to see what other people are using in their game. I also want to get my concept down one hundred percent and then build all the other parts of the battle system around that.
edit: I think I have worked out what I am going to do for my system. You will have to wait for the release of my demo to see what it is. |
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msw188
Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 1041
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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I am a fan of random battles contributing damage over time, rather than being particularly difficult or exciting singly. For one thing, I don't really see an RPG battle system making battles 'exciting', only strategic. But I prefer the long-range strategy of resource management throughout a dungeon over on-the-spot tactical needs in single battles.
Your system sounds like it wants to accomplish both of these things, but in a very separated kind of way. Certain attacks can be used exhaustively throughout a dungeon, while others need to be spared. It sounds interesting, but my only advice would be to be very careful about how large you make your dungeons. If they are too short, the player will be able to use their strong magic without worry. If they are too long, random battles needing constant tactical decisions will become tedious unless you can come up with enough variety to make many of the battles feel different. _________________ My first completed OHR game, Tales of the New World:
http://castleparadox.com/gamelist-display.php?game=161
This website link is for my funk/rock band, Euphonic Brew:
www.euphonicbrew.com |
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Rya.Reisender Snippy

Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Posts: 821
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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I personally support the idea. As people already know I'm a big fan of "You completely recover after each battle, but each battle is a really hard challenge, but at least you can save anywhere" gameplay.
I don't really see why you just want a few stronger skills that are limited after all, though. Because that will just cause, that the players only use these skills during boss battles after all.
Why not just make the battles hard enough that even if you spam your strongest skills you won't just instant win? Plus instead of making just weak cheap skills and strong good skills, make all skills the same as useful, but more tactical, so you need to use the right combination to win the battles. I guess we already have this and it's called Darkmoor Dungeon, though~
Edit: By the way the easiest way to combine unlimited MP with limited MP is to use both the normal MP and the FF1-MP system for each character. The normal MP recover and the FF1-MP stay. _________________ Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) |
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Newbie_Power

Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 1762
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Don't forget that Darkmoor Dungeon doesn't have random battles. I know I understand that I've cried for tactical battles in the past, but I've come to realize that my cries are directed to bosses the most, because I hate crappy bosses.
Random encounters seem more like a strategic affair through a number of battles, though that doesn't exempt them from tactical value, it does exempt them from being annoying. _________________
TheGiz> Am I the only one who likes to imagine that Elijah Wood's character in Back to the Future 2, the kid at the Wild Gunman machine in the Cafe 80's, is some future descendant of the AVGN? |
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Rya.Reisender Snippy

Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Posts: 821
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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:02 am Post subject: |
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Depends on how well the game is designed really. If there are 50 different random encounters that all need a different strategy to win (there can be a big difference between 2 imps in the front and 1 bomb in the back and 1 bomb in the front and 1 imp in the back, even though it seems like a random it could require completely different tactics) in a single dungeon that only has like 30 encounters in total, then this works out with random encounters as well.
The best example is SaGaFrontier, it's not as tactical as I have it in mind, however, it succeeds in having so many different random encounters that you will almost never have the exactly same encounter more than once in one playthrough. _________________ Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) |
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Newbie_Power

Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 1762
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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:23 am Post subject: |
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Err, alright. I'm fine with a variety of encounters. Have your normal encounters and your rare encounters, and try to mix it up. I encourage that as well.
I am just trying to tell this guy that if he can come up with a game idea, he can find ways to make it work and actually be a central focus and not just a gimmick.
You remember the "Of Guns and Heroes" thread, correct? The guy already had ideas laid out, he just needed help implemented them in the OHR.
Anyway... If your concern is that people may spam a powerful spell, or abuse it in boss fights, that particular spell may have been learned at an inappropriate time in the game. The solution is actually simple, in my opinion: Just wait and give the player the spell later on when they'll need it more. It's an RPG, after all. It's a progressive growth of characters. _________________
TheGiz> Am I the only one who likes to imagine that Elijah Wood's character in Back to the Future 2, the kid at the Wild Gunman machine in the Cafe 80's, is some future descendant of the AVGN? |
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Smeargle
Joined: 09 Jun 2008 Posts: 25
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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the advice. It has helped a lot and I think I know what I am going to do (or at least try, some of the things I want to do are really hard in the ohr) |
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Newbie_Power

Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 1762
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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:53 am Post subject: |
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If you need technical advice on how to do something in the OHR, just ask. Usually there's some crazy solution to a lot of things. _________________
TheGiz> Am I the only one who likes to imagine that Elijah Wood's character in Back to the Future 2, the kid at the Wild Gunman machine in the Cafe 80's, is some future descendant of the AVGN? |
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Smeargle
Joined: 09 Jun 2008 Posts: 25
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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:07 am Post subject: |
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I will, I actually already have a thread going on how I am suppose to achieve that sort of hybrid system right here this thread was for more of getting ideas and fine tuning mine. |
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