Castle Paradox

RPGCreations · **E Pluribus Unum** Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 345

http://www.livejournal.com/community/ohrrpgce/17686.html

-Fyre
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Cube · **Dimensional Traveller** Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 294

I don't believe we ever claimed to own the copyrights to your game, or any other. The point we tried to get across, which you constantly ignored, is that we're trying to create a database of all games that were created. We don't want to sell it, or take any credit for the game. We know you made the game and the list says so too.

Copyrights are to make sure illegal copies of said idea are not created. The game list, nor CP, makes illegal copies. The author and creator of the said product or idea makes the choise of uploading it to our list. Because of that, we are allowed to decide if it should stay on the game list because you made the choise of putting it there. That's all. No illegal copies are technically being reproduced because you knew that by uploading the game to the list would create another copy, which would also create many many other copies as they were downloaded by other people.

And I'm also aware that it doesn't say this anywhere on the site, and I apologize for that. Because of this argument, we've added a terms of use, or an agreement, before a game is uploaded (It is stated when registering, I'm not sure if a link to it has been added before you upload a game as well, and if not it will be there soon). It simply allows us to keep the game on the list if we think it should stay there. Again, the gamelist is meant to be an archive of OHR games, and to have games being added then taken away doesn't help. We are only trying to protect and preserve the gamelist.

If anyone who has uploaded games prior to now doesn't agree to this one bit, send any one of us admins a PM and we'll remove your games for you immedietly. By remaining silent would mean you agree to this. But I assure you, as stated by our agreement, we willnot/cannot use your game for anything, other than keeping it on the gamelist.

I'll be posting this on the main page soon too.

RPGCreations · **E Pluribus Unum** Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 345

Congratulations on contradicting yourself.

It's still not good enough, that kind of an agreement should not be there in the first place. Geocities tried to pull this stuff and they got nowhere, what makes you think you can be above the law either?

Better off using the OFFICIAL gamelist at the Hamster Republic, at least James doesn't claim rights to all my games.
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Cube · **Dimensional Traveller** Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 294

I don't see how I contradicted myself. If you're referring to the part about how we'll delete current games right now if they don't agree to this, I say that because those people haven't agreed to such an agreement. There is no "contract" between them and CP at this time, and because of that we'll remove their games if they want them gone.

You keep ignoring what I'm saying. We don't claim your bloody rights. We just want it on the gamelist. If you happen to not want the file itself not on the site then replace it with another .zip file. This way, the game will still be listed on the gamelist and people will know a file had existed at one point, and the reviews of said game remain intact.

We will never claim rights for someone's game. And personally, Fyre, I don't want to claim rights to your games, or anyone else's for that matter.

RPGCreations · **E Pluribus Unum** Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 345

Game's listing and reviews should be completely seperated. Reviews are perfectly legal and there is nothing keeping you from doing that, however such things should not depend on an upload, whether it was "willing" or not. Just because someone did something willingly does not make it okay.

And in short

"We should get permission to host the old games from the author first"

and the greatest line of all:

"We want a list of all OHR games, whether they exist or not" (read that one a few times)

And if they are not in agreement, the game should be removed until they have agreed. Like I said, people should not have to agree to this in the first place, which is why I pulled all my games off. It's stupid and illegal.
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Fenrir-Lunaris · **WUT** Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 1747

I believe what the intent was, is that the gamelist is a FREE place to upload games. If we have to spell it out for you, all the CP gamelist does is hold the right to distribute (for ZERO profit) an author's games for it's creator for free, without laying any claim to them. If you want to get technical about it, that makes them the distributer, and the fact that you solely have the power to click the button and upload it makes you the publisher AND copyright holder as well. If ANYONE here should know what they're talking about, it would be me.

Coincidentally, sue CP, and you also end up suing Square-Enix, because by your logic FFH is THEIR property, which I have in all technicality given to them with the exception of the unique characters introduced in it. FFH, for all means and purposes is a Square game, and the first port of it to be released statewide three months before origins, thereby making it 'propoganda' and an advertisement for their upcoming game. The fact that there has not, and WILL NOT ever be a single penny made from the sale, merchandise, or exploitation of this game, renders it an obsolete worthless peice of trash, which by an agreement I made two years ago stated. In short, it's mine, so long as it remains the only Square game to never make any profit OR loss. It has broke even with no development costs whatsoever.

What you are proposing is essentially suicide for CP, because by your criticism we should delete the gamelist. In truth, you probably won't be satisfied with whatever decision was ever made, and this serves little purpose other than to inflame the OHR public and start a fight that you cannot, and must not ever win. The fact that it is free, and makes no profit from the distribution of free games is reason enough to use it, and the fact that it is essentially trying to become a 'complete' list of OHR games has now been shattered by this senseless action of yours. I'll elaborate...

Your site is down, very few people like you, much less respect you, your forums are as bleak and lifeless as the moon, and there's pornography of yourself as an anthro wolf being f*cked by a sheep floating somewhere in the logs of Blacksheep OHR. What this looks like, even if it's not the case, is an attept to strike back at a community that you are perpetually engaged in a suicidal war with that neither side can capitulate. As the ONLY person who still has yet to actually say 'you sux0rs', and even did a Dogeroo commision picture (which I still have to technically mail to you by my own code of honor), I'm asking everyone to lay down their weapons and think this through rationally, as SENSABLE human beings. This fight has gone on long enough, and for the last time I have heard enough of this pointless, inane bickering between Fyre and the CP staff. This was one of the reasons I wanted to leave a while ago, but decided not to (and NOT over one bad review, that was only a small straw that broke the camel's back so to speak). You guys fight this out yourselves. I'll just quote myself one more time and say that we are a Game-Making Community, and that we have more important things to do than fight, so let's get down to the business of making games.

RPGCreations · **E Pluribus Unum** Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 345

You are missing the point completely, Fenrir. And if you want to get technical, it does not matter if you made profit or not from FFH - Square can still claim it as theirs and sue you over it. Any characters in the game will be considered derivatives of Final Fantasy and also come under their ownership.

You people have no legal sense at all. What so ever.
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Fenrir-Lunaris · **WUT** Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 1747

Or actually... I could continue, which seems to be appropriate because I failed to consider a few additional things in my post, and it seemed to paint Fyre in a negative light he may not entirely be deserving of (however you look at it).

For one, there have been FEW occasions when I can remember that certain members of the OHR community have not been blasting Fyre for his repeated delays of SoJ2, or a few other such things. Likewise the constant jokes behind his back, the fact that not ONCE have I ever seen him receive the distinction of receiving a '+v' in #paradoxlounge, lead me to believe that while Fyre MIGHT be deserving of some criticism for his behaviour, it's more likely that the fight is a bit one sided. That and the sheep humping Dogeroo on Blacksheep:OHR was a bit uncalled for, and I'M the one who for the record does 90% of the furry-oriented pr0n around here.

However, the fact remains that this ongoing fighting is pointless, and only serves to discourage people from excorcising their rights to create and distribute their games made with the OHR engine. No side seems to be poised to ever win, so here's a suggestion. One day, ANY day, someone extend an clear offer of truce. Somebody give Fyre the +v at least ONCE. And like Cube has done repeatedly in the past, keep seeking a way to peacably sort this out and not degrade into name-calling and insulting. The final word I can add is that since we review the games in question, this site has an educational purpose, and has every right to exist.

Coincidentally, look in the gamelist for "Final Fantasy 0" and look at the title screen. Now, explain to me what you would do if someone used the graphics you created, and have not given permission to use? I've stated many, many times in the past that FFH was made with permission, and that the overall statement was 'we don't care what you really do, but sell it and we'll kill you'. Now, explain what YOU would do in my position.

Aethereal · Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:23 pm Post subject:

Well, we wouldn't be getting into these argument wars if Fyre didn't bring anything up to start them in the first place (and at the beginning of our IRC argument, we attempted to quickly resolve the issue with him, which obviously didn't work). However, the big problem I see in this thing, which needs to end now (especially since we have remedied the problem and Fyre's games are no longer on the list at his request), is that Fyre is avoiding every question thrown at him and covering himself with things such as "You're contradicting yourself" and "u sux0rs ur l0g1c 5uX". In IRC, you failed to answer every question asked of you by Cube. Inevitably, what I just said might spark another argument, so maybe it is better left unsaid, but since I say we stop the argument here and now, let's do that. Fyre, everything's been cleaned up, your games are gone, a terms of use is in place, and you have nothing more to complain about. So why stretch this out? Let's put this argument behind us and just move along. Apparently you are the only person who has a problem with the fact that you can't delete games, so your argument is nothing more than a waste of time that you could be using to work on finishing Sword of Jade or getting your site back up.

Enough is enough, let's all shut up and go back to our lives.
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Setu_Firestorm · Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:28 pm Post subject:

Aeth is right. Who gives a crap whether our stuff is copyrighted or not?
Just drop it!
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Camdog · Joined: 08 Aug 2003 Posts: 606

The US copyright office has a method (http://www.copyright.gov/title37/201/37cfr201-26.html) for registering software as shareware. I'm willing to bet that SoJ didn't go through this. I'm also willing to bet that the demo didn't even have a readme saying it was shareware associated with it, although I can't be sure as it was so quickly whisked away. Although I don't really know what the terms of use are for the Castle Paradox gamelist (I poked around the site for a bit and couldn't find anything; it probably wouldn't hurt if someone stuck those up somewhere to avoid future confusion), I believe the act of uploading software to a public site without any liscence agreement implies that it is being released as freeware.

If it was released as freeware, then you do indeed still retain any copyrights you made on the software, but anyone else has a right to keep, distribute, or even modify the software as long as they don't distribute it or any derivatives of it for profit. That means castle paradox has a right to keep the game on its game list, upload it to other gamelists, and even release the modified version: "Sword of Jade 37 - Fyrewulff has sex with his mother."

I realize this is a bit nitpicky, but frankly, if you can go overboard and threaten to sue a free service that you voluntarily used over a technicality, I think I can claim that your game isn't, technically speaking, shareware at all. Frankly, I don't think you have a legal leg to stand on, so I think you should get over yourself and put the game back up on CP's gamelist. It actually looks pretty cool and I want to play it.

RPGCreations · **E Pluribus Unum** Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 345

You never assume a game as freeware - which Jade is not - it is not shareware either. It is released under the RNSPL (RPGCreations Not So Public License), and there are TERMS that you must agree to, clearly stated in the install, including "You may not distribute this game without permission of RPGCreations", and "You may not make any modifications, including "skins" and trainers, or derivatives of the game".

The issue here is that CP thinks it has a legal leg to stand on. There would be no issue if I knew they would remove a game download WITH NO QUESTIONS ASKED, however, they are currently breaking the law.
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Setu_Firestorm · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 12:27 am Post subject:

You DO realize that you're probably the only person who understand's what the freak you're talking about, right?

Everyone else (myself included) can't make sense out of this whole post.
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RPGCreations · **E Pluribus Unum** Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 345

You make no sense, Mr. Who Gives a Crap Wheter Our Stuff Is Copyrighted or Not. I give a crap about my copyrights, and I don't appreciate people trying claiming a right to them.
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Setu_Firestorm · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 12:43 am Post subject:

In the words of Dog:

WUT EVA! I DUN CAR!1!
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