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Rya.Reisender
Snippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 821
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 Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| jabbercat wrote: | | Rya.Reisender wrote: | | Other people work 8 hours 5 days a week, why should composers not? They are just lazy bums then. |
You wouldn't criticize a doctor for being on a £50,000 something paycheck per annum, considering they'd put in 10 years overall to become fully qualified, a GOOD composer will have put in at least 10 years education, studying harmony, structure, history, instrumental techniques, and they'd be fortunate to earn £20,000 per annum, in an industry that treads on them, and you consider them lazy?
I'm just blown away at your ignorance. Genuinely. |
A doctor sometimes works much more than 8 hours on a day. They really earn that money even if you don't consider the educated needed.
A GOOD composer doesn't even need education he can just make up good melodies right away. Even if the composers need education, it's not really a valid argument, because there are quite many jobs where you need a lot of education and you still just earn $5000 a month when working 8 hours each day except weekend.
It's right that 20000 pounds a year isn't much, but considering that they don't work most of the time it is.
Take SoJ for reference. 20 tracks, composer wants $60000. 20 tracks * 4 minutes each * 2 hours per minute = 160 hours of work. If working 8 hours a day, that's 20 days of work. They just need to work 20 of the 365 days of a year to earn $60000. I'd still call that lazy.
Granted James is right that there is not enough to do for them and the hardest part is to actually get something to do, but that doesn't change the fact that they earn a lot for doing little.
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Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) |
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The Wobbler
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 2221
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| Note from Castle Paradox Administration: | | This content has been removed by the user. Contact the original author and link them to this post if you wish to view the original content. Only the author can remove the tags hiding this content. |
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Rya.Reisender
Snippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 821
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: |
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They are so good that I usually keep them secret. But I released Fatal Maze after all and that actually has some game ideas put together.
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Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) |
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Camdog
Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 606
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| James Paige wrote: | | by my calculation, it only takes 15 composers to provide music faster than it can be listened to under the constraints of this puzzle. |
Wait wait wait... Now that I'm thinking about it more, I'm coming up with a third figure as an answer...
If people want 16 hours of new music 7 days a week, that's a total 6,720 minutes of new music per week (16 hours * 60 minutes in an hour * 7 days a week). A composer that produces a minute of music every 2 hours can produce 4 minutes of music each work day, and 20 minutes of music each work week. Therefore, to reach the target of 6,720 minutes of new music a week, there'd need to be 336 composers working full time (6,270/20 = 336), right?
| James Paige wrote: | The population of the earth was a red herring  music is an infinite resource, so it wouldn't matter if there were a gabloozillion people on earth. |
Heh. Yep, you got me.
| Rya.Reisander wrote: | A GOOD composer doesn't even need education he can just make up good melodies right away. Even if the composers need education, it's not really a valid argument, because there are quite many jobs where you need a lot of education and you still just earn $5000 a month when working 8 hours each day except weekend.
It's right that 20000 pounds a year isn't much, but considering that they don't work most of the time it is. |
Goddamn, there's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin. First off, you're making the mistake that the only work composers (or anybody doing freelance work) do is when they're actively on the clock. Building contacts, selling yourself, finding work, etc. all takes a lot of work. Besides, clearly the market supports these prices. What do you want composers to do? Ask for less money than they're offered because of some kind of mutant protestant work ethic?
As far as education goes, saying it isn't needed is both idiotic and insulting. A good music education is an absolute requirement for a professional composer. I'm not saying people can't intuit music, and many untrained musicians have created wonderful, genre-defining pieces. However, when you receive a spec like, "I need an orchestral piece for the mountain scene, something jazzy for the beach town, and I'd like you to rearrange this song for 4-part vocal harmony," you need to have had a lot of schooling to pull something like that off. |
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Onlyoneinall
Bug finder
Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 746
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| Rya.Reisender wrote: | | They are so good that I usually keep them secret. |
I know what you mean, man. If I were to let people know about all the great game ideas I had every single day, people would hate me because they would think I'm some sort of genius or something. Better they don't know about them so they can't hate on you for all your creative genius, right?
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http://www.castleparadox.com/gamelist-display.php?game=750 Bloodlust Demo 1.00
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The Wobbler
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 2221
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Rya.Reisender
Snippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 821
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Onlyoneinall wrote: | | Rya.Reisender wrote: | | They are so good that I usually keep them secret. |
I know what you mean, man. If I were to let people know about all the great game ideas I had every single day, people would hate me because they would think I'm some sort of genius or something. Better they don't know about them so they can't hate on you for all your creative genius, right? |
Yeah exactly! Cool that you feel the same way. :-)
Also for some reason I'm really afraid someone steals those ideas... although I'm not even sure if I ever implement them myself...
| Surlaw wrote: | | So you're just bursting with all these great ideas and you've only managed to produce one tiny demo that didn't really do anything new or innovative? Quit complaining about other people being lazy and get off your own ass and do something instead of whining all day. Ideas are worth nothing if you're never going to do anything with them. |
First of all, just that I have good game ideas doesn't mean I'm capable to implement them or even want to do it.
Second, I didn't release a demo, I released a full game.
Third, it was very innovative, it had a battle system that hasn't been done for the OHR before and the kind of maze-like system hasn't been on OHR before either. Not to mention how the game plays and the fact that it comes out without a story at all. There are pretty many ideas put into that game. Plus all the testing on what I can do with graphics.
Fourth, I agree I'm lazy myself. But only because I have many good ideas doesn't mean I have to implement them into any game. I might just play them myself with by using my phantasy and an abacus to keep data or just write them down on a piece of paper and archive it along with the other ideas. Who says that game designers need to develop themselves anyways.
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Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) |
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The Wobbler
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 2221
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Rya.Reisender
Snippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 821
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Whether the ideas are innovative or not, is personal taste. I think my ideas are very good and if someone randomly happens to use one of those ideas himself then I'd credit him for having these ideas as well.
Only because I'm lazy doesn't mean I can't complain about other people being lazy. It's the similar to being able to say "This game sucks" as gamer even if you can't do it any better. Plus I'm only complaining about being lazy and charging for it. I'm not as lazy in my job~
Don't worry if I'd really plan to release my ideas I'd make sure they are posted somewhere as my ideas so I can back it up.
In fact I was already thinking of giving the ideas to other people and let them make a game out of it, but it's hard to find someone for this. Usually game developers have enough ideas themselves. Only a minority loves to code games but doesn't have any ideas what to code.
I actually would love to work together with Onlyoneinall because he can make awesome games in which some of my ideas would fit really well...
Well the future will show.
My offer to help people with games always stands.
_________________
Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) |
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Newbie_Power
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Rya, you managed to judge the work musicians do on a very clouded basis. Why should we respect you in return?
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TheGiz> Am I the only one who likes to imagine that Elijah Wood's character in Back to the Future 2, the kid at the Wild Gunman machine in the Cafe 80's, is some future descendant of the AVGN? |
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Rya.Reisender
Snippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 821
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:54 am Post subject: |
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This is nothing against you anyways, just against that dude that wanted money for the SoJ soundtrack. >>
_________________
Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) |
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RedMaverickZero
Three pointed, red disaster!
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 1459
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't been to CP in like 2 months, and it's basically because people like Rya are fucking idiots.
Dude, nothing you say ever makes any sense. You like to rant and rave about how fucking amazing you are in every way and judge other people's ideas so harshly. If you can't do anything better, then shut up already. And IF you can, then do it. If you don't provide us with any proof that you're as "awesome and innovative" as you claim, then you're still a worthless pile of shit who needs to go use RPG Maker and criticize those games instead of a community that actually tries to learn from one another rather than criticize. Fatal Maze was a mediocre to awful game, it didn't offer anything new, and it probally took you all of 2 hours to make.
You're probally some ten or eleven year old kid who thinks he's all that, but really, you're just a kid who thinks you're better than everyone.
Shut up and leave.
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---------------Projects----
Mr.Triangle's Maze: 70%
Takoyaki Surprise: 70% |
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Inspiration
Anti-Protagonist
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 74
Location: Kool-Aid
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Both of you are missing the point that nobody needs to be judged and that nobody needs to be judging anyone else.
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Look back and you've already lost.
Look forward and embrace the trials of tomorrow. |
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Newbie_Power
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Inspiration, your avatar is freaking scary. It's enough to make a grown man cry. 
EDIT: You changed your avatar?
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TheGiz> Am I the only one who likes to imagine that Elijah Wood's character in Back to the Future 2, the kid at the Wild Gunman machine in the Cafe 80's, is some future descendant of the AVGN? |
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Rya.Reisender
Snippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 821
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Can't you ban RMZ already? Only thing he does all day is flaming~
_________________
Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) |
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