Castle Paradox

[Mr B]

I am trying to come up with a list of boss types by character/personality. (generally final bosses) Or just plain malefactors also, such as may be found in books (no final boss battles in books -- ha!)

Just-cause. He is the boss that only exists to fight you. He has no real personality, and, if he ticks off the main characters at all, it's in a general way (destroying humanity, playing loud music, whatever) One word: Lavos.

Crazy. This is steady staple for lots of RPG bosses. Kefka, to give an example. Has a weak grasp on reality which is generally expressed by destroying people's lives for no real reason.

Power hungry. This is closely related to the Crazy boss, and generally does the same things, but for different reasons. Er...how about Smithy from MarioRPG?

Noble. This is an interesting boss type for me, and not just because it's underused. The whole theme of fallen glory has a certain...wistfulness. How about the Purple Emperor from The Legion of Space(good book, by John Williamson)?

Because-it-needs-to-be-this-way. This really isn't the right title for this personality type, but I can't think of a better one. This would be like The Monster in Frankenstein who pursued and eventually killed Dr. Frankenstein because he (the doctor) refused to take on the responsibilities that he (again, the doctor) had made for himself. (Frankenstein is a good book -- read it. It's not the dumbness that you'd think it would be -- it has a lot of very, very good questions)

Vengeful. Closely related to the type above, but different. Due to some past wrong (real or percieved), this boss type wants to make his enemies suffer. I can't think of any for this (I have played very, very few games).

That ought to be enough to start off the list. Can other people add others? How about comments on the different boss types (I will add my own thoughts and comments on types -- I want to see what other people think first). What are the 'best' types? The worst(most pathetic)? Hopefully this thread will help clear my thoughts out...

[Iblis]

Kefka had a reason to destry people: he thought it was funny.
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[Setu_Firestorm]

It depends on the story. In most cases for RPGs, you'll want a Kefka kind of character, but if you're making a dark RPG, I highly recommend the gentle-spirited villains, as they are the most disturbing kind.
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[JSH357]

Kefka doesn't fit the insane category. Kefka is power-hungry.
I won't get too deep into this, but think about the Statues.

Sephiroth, on the other hand, is an insane villian. He really has
no motive behind his actions. He just suddenly gains this desire to
start killing things when he figures out he was a creation. A sane
person wouldn't do that, methinks. After all, it's not how you were
born, but what you do with your life. Of course, you could call the
entirety of Final Fantasy VII's story insane. If you sit there and
analyze it, you'll probably realize that most of the characters are
either insane or very poorly designed. (Although, some of the
character's in that game are pretty good, like Yuffie and Barret)

[Grandtrain]

Didn't his mind snapped because of the magitek experiment?

[Shadowiii]

What about Deus from Xenogears? Erm, I'll elaborate later.

My definate favorite boss types are either:

1. The Guy You'd Least Expect - These tend to be final bosses in games that really don't seem like they are going to have a final boss until you approach the end. Like Legend of Dragoon (sorry...) or...dang just forgot. The final boss of Final Fantasy 4. Or maybe someone in your party who goes insane and you haveh to kill them. I don't like these when theya re just there because (FF9's final boss, stupidest thing ever). I really do enjoy it if they are a character who you were fighting for or you though was noble, or who was a friend, but you split ways so dramatically that you have to kill him (you could say Sephiroth was this if the game ended at Disc 1).

2. The Noble Leader, who has incredable power, but only cares to restoring the world to a 'former state' or to restore his nation - Basically what I want for Lacrymosa's final boss. Usually these guys either are there throughout the game (see no 1 above) or you meet him at the end after hearing a lot (or knowing a lot) about him. Basically he is someone who is benevolent to his own people, and thus usually wont' interfear with you guys ordinarily. However, something has come up, and he's gotta toast you all. I guess Marche could be this if the game (FFTA) were played from Mewt's perspective (which would be interesting). I really like it when these guys actually spent time helping you in the past (but you didn't know it; kinda like God or something) but now you have to destory him because his motives differ from yours. Not evil, but since his objectives strongly conflit with yours, you have to end it.

Basically speaking, I enjoy games were the final bosses are someone you deeply hate, but still don't want to kill. Sephiroth before...the end of Disc 1 incident was kinda like this. If Magus had been the last boss in Chrono Trigger he would be like this.

I just tend to dislike "pure evil" final bosses, because in truth no one is pure evil (save Satan, if you believe that). Having to kill someone who is, in truth, a good person but an enemy is really heartrending for the player (not the character, obviously) and works well.

I just HATE GAMES where the final boss is some random guy, or has no development whatsoever. Final bosses need to be final bosses, no question about it. This is one of the reasons why I hated Final Fantasy 9.
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But enough talk, have at you!

[Mr B]

AUGH! NO SHADOWIII!!! Don't give away the story!!!!

Of course, I did start the thread because I wanted to get a different boss, so it's all my fault.

*goes to weep in corner*

[quote=Shadowiii]The guy you'd least expect[/quote]
Totally! Sort of like if Mary Magdeline was the final boss in The Gospel of Mathew.



Er, nevermind

Noble Leader. That's a good idea. You don't want to kill him, but you need to kill him. Having him help you throughout the game, build up a rapport, that would be quite interesting.

Hmm...and I think that Kefka's mind did snap during the magitech experiments. But how would I know? I stopped playing after the flying continent. Well, okay. Then I pirated Shadowiii's saved games and did the final battle. [/quote]

Hmm...CP seems to be acting up today...

[Aethereal]

(Some minor FF6 spoilers here, so don't read if you don't want anything spoiled...)

I don't think Kefka fits into the random-crazy category or the power-hungry category. He fits into a 'crazy-for-a-good-reason' category.

Consider the fact that, according to FF6's story, Kefka was not like he is prior to the game's main events. He was not crazy or insane, and didn't kill for the fun of it. I can't say whether he was still an evil little man or not, but I do know that he went psycho after being the first to undergo the Magitek infusion process - the process, which was imperfect, caused something to snap within him, and therefore he became the insane guy we all know and love. He does show some signs of being power-hungry (with the statues and all), but you have to also consider the overall effect of the statues - it did give Kefka that power he wanted, but at what cost? And did he care about what would happen when the statues were moved? Absolutely not.

(End Spoiler)
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[madhatter]

We also need the "bosses that make no sense whatsoever" category. A good example of this is John Romero's head on a stick at the end of Doom 2. He was the head programmer of the game.

Heh, that spoiled Doom2's ending (if you've played it, which I'm estimating you probably haven't.)

[Shadowiii]

Hey! I remember that! That was one of the funniest things ever.

Mr. B - I'm not! I'm not! Really! The story is behind a vault! Known as my email!
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But enough talk, have at you!

[Sephyroth]

Hmm... "Guy you'd least expect"...

I think what would be really effective is if you have a character that starts off as a general good guy. Then the game drops subtle hints about him being evil (well, not evil. Being a threat to the main heroes), but by that time the character leaves such an effect on the player that he actually doesn't want that character to die in the game, which would be inevitable if he was a villain. Let me try to invent an example...

You have.. an idealistic hero whose flaw is that his existence in itself threatens the world. Let enough of the game to pass to have that character leave an influence on the player, then have the other heroes find out that they have to destroy him to protect the world. After the heroes get past this first obstacle of preparing their minds for the concept of killing one of their own teammates, the idealistic hero turns against them and runs away, refusing to end his own existence to save the world, suffering as the rest of the world shun him and stilling fearing an end, thinking that he could actually do something to prevent the deterioration of the world, but only making things worse, until the heroes hunt him down and kill him in a final boss battle.
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im realy ded

[Zerith]

Sephiroth didn't flip out, he was trying to create a world where him and mother could live only. Cloud flipped out if anything.

I tend to like the Villians who are vengeful. In my current RPG I wanted a vengeful villian because it fits the story and his character real well.

I also like Villians who know they are awesome and don't let anyone forget it.

[Uncommon]

The guy you'd least expect? Sounds like Big Boss from Metal Gear...

Shadow, you stated that only Stana is pure evil, but what about demons? Demons can sometimes even out-evil him... I myself use the four chief demons as the villains in WGMD as opposed to their master, but I kind of mess it up and make their characters a little too human...

[eldritch]

The fanatic: A follower of a cause who has had its mind warped to an incredible degree in order to allow it to 'logically' overlook the inconsistencies in its tenets. Said fanatic ends up growing too powerful for said cause's leaders to control and ends up biting it in the arse and generally going on a rampage.

The closet-madman: A seemingly normal person, maybe even a nice person, with an incredibly demented second persona/demon lurking within it.
Example: Id, Xenogears. (speaking about the persona)

Follower of an opposing cause: Best for games with moral ambiguity, this antagonist is not evil or bad in any way other than the fact that it champions the cause (usually equally beneficial as the heroes) that is in direct opposition to that which the heroes fight for. The player possibly grows to love and respect said antagonist almost equally as well as the heroes.
Example: Jowy from Suikoden II
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"Semper Fideles means 'we eat our dead.'"
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[jabbercat]