Castle Paradox

[Guest]

Recently I received the long-awaited review for Ancient Warriors. It was not the most flattering review in the world, but it opened my eyes to a lot of things and gave me a better perspective on how others see my work - which is exactly what I wanted. The main problem with Ancient Warriors was it's immaturity - I'm not saying I designed AW with an immature mindset, at least not intentionally, but the game's story and most of its other components were fairly underdeveloped (Ironically, if you managed to beat the boss and only battle in the game, you would find that the theme of the game itself ties in with it's poor quality, which sort of serves as an alibi for its utter suckiness). I am currently revamping Ancient Warriors with a more defined direction in graphics, story, and gameplay, so I wanted to discuss with the community some ways in which I could make my game better.

First of all, a closer look at the problems with AW:

1. The graphics suck. I must admit, I have very little artistic talent and even less skill, especially with computer graphics. I have a hard time even drawing characters on paper. In fact, none of the game was preplanned except in my head. This is something I am working on, though, and hey, if Arfenhouse can pass its graphics for okay, then I can do it too.

2. The story: I pretty much made it up as I went along. I lost my creative abilities somewhere around grade 2, when I wrote my first and possibly - but not hopefully - my last well written fictional short story. I've never been that good at making up interesting and intriguing plots. Again, this is something I am striving to improve. The dialogue may have been cute, but I want to get serious.

3. Music. Well, I'm a pretty good musician, but I either don't have the time with my busy, stressful life (the stress and the business are also what contribute to the lacking in other areas of my game(s). My life forces me to not concentrate enough on them) to sit down and compose really good songs...or I wasn't able to hear BAM music.

4. And last (but not least), the gameplay. Ancient Warriors was more of a test RPG, if anything. I don't yet have a very good idea of what players expect or find enjoyable in a good RPG (but the more I play them, the more I learn about this), and I wanted AW to be something different than the usual, so I experimented a little. This resulted in a lot of major necessary elements being left out, the save points - which JSH highlighted in his rant - being one of them (pre-boss battles, which would've enabled the player to become strong enough to defeat the boss, were another...although when I was playtesting it, for some reason I had no trouble beating the boss...but now it seems you can't). This is the element I most want to work on, and discuss with you guys, as I consider it most important. The other stuff is icing on the cake.

I have studied the way that console RPGs, such as Dragon Warrior, are layed out. Taken literally, their storylines are fairly incoherent and nonsensical, but when you put them in context they somewhat make sense. Maps are as compact as possible, without taking away from the challenge, and are somewhat realistic (eg. castles are designed to look like real-life castles, as are towns, etc.), and the graphics precise what real objects and creatures would look like if they were pixelated. Such RPGs are solid, professional masterpieces, albeit mundane, and are extremely difficult to imitate. Again, I want to do "something different" with my RPGs (but am willing, if absolutely necessary, to stick to the basics), so I'd like more than anything to find my own style and not copy ENIX or Square or anyone else, but I want it to be something that everyone understands and can get into playing: This is why I want to discuss it over with the community.

[no_shot]

This topic is separated into two parts, mainly because they cover different points. The first Part was about the problems I saw with my game, Ancient Warriors (yes, "guest" was me...unfortunately I was logged out while proofreading and editing that post!). In Part II I will explain what I actually think about game design. I'd like to discuss both these points, so that's why I've included them both in this thread.

1. Story - I think a game's story should be intriguing. A story is made up of fictional characters which interact with their world, which is mainly a made up world loosely based on reality. The story world is actually, in most cases, a "theoretical world", something like "according to what Author X knows about real life from experience, then these characters should have these experiences, and react to them in such and such a way." A good story has a logical flow to it, and can end either "happily", or not, but must come to a reasonable conclusion one way or another...unless you want it to be an unreasonable story.

2. Graphics - I don't really know what to say, here. Graphics can either be solid constructs, giving no regard to abstract thought, or they can be just pieces of abstract art (like I found the Arfenhouse graphics to be), OR they can be a little of both. I would prefer a little of both.

i. Solid-Construct graphics - these are the graphics I find in Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy and other console RPGs. This type of graphic focuses on realistically building/rendering the image of a certain object in a pixelated environment. I would imagine that there is a lot of theory behind Solid-Construction, but I don't know any of it. I can only guess that you'd have to draw each part of the object at a time (i.e. one brick at a time) and somehow make them fit together in a reasonable fashion.

ii. Abstract Art - From what I've observed, abstract art (as I'm calling it, here) is not realistically building an object in pixelated space, but rather just drawing an icon and using that to represent the object. The abstract art must be skillfully drawn, however, not just drawing a bunch of meaningless scribbles, as the name might imply to a simpler mind. Abstract art takes a lot of thought and consideration towards what you are trying to create an image of. Any lack thereof, and you risk misrepresenting your ideas.

3. Gameplay - Gameplay should be smooth, challenging, and fair. It should be well-balanced. To give one example, I found earlier Dragon Warriors (I-III) to be lacking somewhat in balance, ie. the enemies had unlimited MP, while the hero did not. In IV, the battle system was fairer: Enemies now had an MP limit, same as the heroes. Battle systems, for one, should be equal for both sides in this way. (RANDOM SMILY FLOOD TIME :flamedevil: :flamedevil: :flamedevil: :flamedevil: :flamedevil: :flamedevil: :flamedevil: :flamedevil: :flamedevil: :flamedevil: :flamedevil: :flamedevil: :flamedevil: :flamedevil: ) Like the story, gameplay should follow a logical flow.

4. Music - I tend to just set a mood and let it flow from there. Music should create an atmosphere. It's hard to describe it here...you just have to write.

Your Thoughts>
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[RPGCreations]

PART I

Graphics: The graphics in ancient warriors were nes level, which worked. To make them better besides working on your graphical ability, I suggest more compact and better map design, better character design (shy guys? tiki mask man boss? you can do better!), and to be honest with yourself: if something doesn’t look good, then you should know how to make it look better, and then you should make the corrections.

Story: Write out your entire story first. Base it around a theme, climaxes, and most importantly: the game. Game-primacy is desired, not story-primacy. After you have the story written up and perfected, split it up into scenes and write the dialogue for it, not in custom, but whatever you wrote the story in. It is a lot easier this way, and you can get a good overview of your game’s core scenes and how it goes along with the game.

Game:
"I don't yet have a very good idea of what players expect or find enjoyable in a good RPG"
BAD! BAD Azreal! Sit, heel!

That is how most game designers fail, they make games for others and not themselves, based on what others want and not on what they want out of their own game. You are the designer, not them! If you make a game to your likes, it will be a great experience to others. When you play someone else's game, do you not think to yourself: "I would have done something different, but nonetheless this is a unique and interesting experience by the creator that I gained something out of, something that might not have been intended by the creator"?

PART II

Story: The basics of a good story: it has a theme and everything presented has something to do with that theme, including the game aspect. The theme is what your work is about, what abstract / idea it shows, what it concretes. Mario's theme is jumping. Metal Gear's theme is tactical espionage. Final Fantasy 4's theme is light / dark, white / black. Notice how each of those examples concrete their themes with action (which is the game part) and with plot, characters, setting (the story part).

Graphics: Following from the above, graphics should be connected to your theme. In jade, the graphics all have a black outline for a reason: it connects to the theme of selfish gain, as each object is its own entity, distinct to itself, not a part of a greater whole.

Solid-Construct graphics: Know your graphic engine. The ohrrpgce is set up to display 20x20 pixil tiles and walkabouts. This promotes blocky visuals, as they are easier to make with the setup. When designing graphics, it is best to keep that in mind. I can remember many ohrrpgce luds where the creator fails to realize this, such as having trees the player can walk under, but the tress are drawn in such a way that I am also walking under the grass at the same time.

Gameplay: Balance is the most important aspect, but only after you have designed what the game will model, and how it will model it (the specifics). For most ohrrpgce games, that means deciding on how to best use the battle and exploration system, and then balance it to make it fun to play. Not fun for others to play! Fun for you--the creator--to play!
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[Friend]

Ancient Warriors have no "gimmicks" to make the game unique from other OHR games. I don't think you intended to have one since you said you're going to make it in DW fashion. Suffice to say, DW has just enough depth as the first Ultima game. Which isn't saying much. There's nothing much you can "ADD" to the gameplay except for the stat-balancing and maybe make the exploration part better. Having a good story in a game like this will help too.

Don't take offense to this, but I don't like your attitude toward gamemaking. "I don't have enough time" is a bad excuse, we don't have a time limit to reach the production time unlike the professionals. You have a lot of time, that is unless you forgot to mention that you have cancerous disease and will die within a couple of months. Sure you're busy, but you ought to have free time to type all of this... work on your free time and don't release the game until it really has enough content (don't tell me you expect glowing reviews with 10 minutes of traditional DW-styled game). So what if it'll take you 2 years? if you don't have the time to compose a good music (or don't have the time to get someone to compose good music for you) then you don't have the time to make a good game. It took years before Jordan Mechner finally released Prince of Persia.

I don't want to go into this "I make games for myself" arguement, but think about it for a moment. Nobody knows for sure what other players find enjoyable in game, it clicks differently for other people.
You do however, should know for sure what you like in a game (if you don't, stop reading.) If you make a game that you really enjoy, there's a high chance that others will enjoy it too. Well, some people would probably despise it, but it's your call to decide whether or not you made a design error, not them (obviously.)

I think for the moment, the storyline is appropriate for Ancient Warriors due to the simplistic gameplay. Some script driven events would be good too, as long as they're not too limiting. Here's a direct quote from Jordan Mechner when questioned about how he's going to incorporate story into the game:
"To me, it's important to always keep in mind that we are making a game, not a movie," comments Mechner. "The cinematics should be about the same thing the game is about. What by that is, don't open with a 10-minute cinematic cut-scene exmplaining the complicated backstory of three warring kingdoms if the actual gameplay is 'fight and kill everyone you meet,' a simple game should have a simple story." (I believe many of us are guilty of this.)

Friend,
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"I am Collins. From my position in the moon's orbit, I watched Armstrong and Aldrin land and walk on the surface. I was so close to the ground of the moon, and yet I returned without having trod upon it... I am Collins." -Friend

[no_shot]

...actually, shortly after I posted this demo, I continued working on it a bit, and added a cinematic scene that runs when you return to the castle after beating the boss (for some reason, the boss was actually beatable when I was playtesting it). Now, since I'm redoing the game (I'm leaving only the fundamental storyline and theme the same), it'll probably change, but cinematics like that were - and still are - definitely in the plans.
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