Castle Paradox

LongeBane · Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 312 Location: Tomorrow

Read article:

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/komeladventures/chronicles.html

Shadowiii · **It's been real.** Joined: 14 Feb 2003 Posts: 2460

So, what you are say is, you want us to stop pushing the limits and being original, and just settle back in to what is already created. You want is to, instead of increasing our knowledge of game design and trying new things to find out what works and what doesn't, to sit on our butts and make a bunch of RPGs using the engine.

Basically, you are saying every advancement in the OHR community in attempts to alter the engine was a waste of time, and that instead of pushing the engine's limits and our own in an attempt at design better, more original games, and instead of developing skills that we will ACTUALLY use later on if any of us decide to become game designers, you'd rather we just be "good little OHRers" and make lack-luster RPGs with nothing new, original, or special.

You, sir, are a fool.
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But enough talk, have at you!

LongeBane · Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 312 Location: Tomorrow

um, no Shadow. That is not what I meant.

I am saying you should not visualize a sidescroller game to merely show off that you can "PlotScript".

I am saying you should not make a game and say "This game has INSANE plotscripting. PLAY IT!"

I AM saying You should make a game and say, "Yea, my game is great, and yes, it includes some great plotscripts."

Minnek · Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:16 pm Post subject:

Idiocy, pure idiocy.

Sure, it was created with RPGs in mind, but the fact that we can mold it into something else is a good thing. It means we have the ability to work around difficulties and so-called "limits". Just to note also, is that unlike the graphics of the market today, the pushing of the limits here provides with unique and unseen gameplay that doesn't get old after having seen it once. (Most of the time.) Games were made for GAMEPLAY, not graphics - and the subdivision of RPGs was made with story as an important factor as well (to my knowledge; correct me if I'm wrong here.)

Another thing I note is that in the area where it shows what games have the highest rankings, it doesn't say RPG once. Not even once. Hence, it is a GAME that has recieved the A+ ranking, not an RPG. (On a side note, the game albeit being made up of a lot of plotscripting, was in fact a game. Quite an enjoyable one too, in my opinion.)

You sir, are a Calen.

...

I mean fool. (A Calen... what was I thinking.

)
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MultiColoredWizard · Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:16 pm Post subject:

"Guess what guys? What rpg has the highest grade (A+)? A SIDESCROLLER! I laugh. So, I expect, This must be a REALLLY good sidescroller to beat those b+ rpgs."
Obviously.
"Booo. This game was a No. Sure, it is a Striking PlotScript. But that's all it is. One big plotscript. A game? No. One big plotscript."
Not necessarily. The game itself is about 38 plotscripts together. Oh yeah, and, just so you know, it is indeed a game. Just, you know, play it, for once. I don't see where you got this OMG PLOTSCRIPT DOES NOT EQUAL GAME.
By this logic, you may as well consider every Game Maker, Games Factory, MMF, Jamagic, and pretty much every other game 'one big script.' Terribly stupid of you.
"A few text boxes jammed into there last minute."
Not necessarily, as text was necessary to give the person an idea of what the hell is going on.
"And what does it get? An A+."
An a+, because it's a fucking great game.
"And does any other raters out there care? No. It gets an A+. "
I can't even tell what you're talking about.
Also, just because the engine is specifically designed for RPGs, doesn't mean you need to make RPGs on it. I'd rather make a sidescroller on the OHR instead of The Games Factory because A) it's easier to tile, B) I can draw the graphics faster, C) It's easier to code, and D) Because I'm actually trying to do something myself, instead of using a predesigned feature.
I don't know what direction you intended to head, sir, but all I know is that you missed the nail and hit your face in the process.
You make me ashamed to have ever called you a game designer.

LongeBane · Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 312 Location: Tomorrow

Nope, you are missing my point, hence the title (I intended for those who are planning to make a game to show off a plotscript). I do not have anything against the ambitious and great plotscripts. But I do not agree with having plotscripts the developer's main goal. They must instead see how the plotscripts can help their game, not make it their game.

~A sidescroller can be an example. Adding elements instead of finishing the script and say, "its a wrap".
And furthurmore, OHR is basically more of a base for future developers.
We can learn a lot from OHR and it's simplicity. That is why it is preferred by beginners and some more advanced users. But there will have to be a point in the developer's career that he needs more than the OHR allows. Than is why he must consider if OHR is the right engine for him anymore.

Shadowiii · **It's been real.** Joined: 14 Feb 2003 Posts: 2460

Eggie · Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 904

I sometimes wonder this myself. James made an RPG engine, not a simulation expertise engine. I mean, it's nice to see people creativity, but we are forgetting the core of the engine. Not that RPG's are all that reat, and franklyI have no idea why I love them because a lot of them are just "Leveling up to beat the boss." Oh well. If it entertains me without messing up my head, then I am happy. This is an interesting point, but the pros and cons are tied.

MultiColoredWizard · Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:26 pm Post subject:

The sidescrolling wasn't the main goal. It was the gameplay enhancer. Trailblazers would have been very different if it was an RPG, as you said every OHR game should be. I would have probably rated it a B or so, depending on how well it turned out.

LongeBane · Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 312 Location: Tomorrow

Then again, the main goal of the OHR was not for making a sidescroller (though James has allowed that to happen).

arg.
We make games for so they can be fun, yes. That is what games are, for entertainment. However, OHR was not initially designed for that (which brings out a different point in my article). IT can still make it but developers can find that some other engines can do that more well than the OHR. It is much more difficult to achieve on the OHR, though not impossible. And when a developer strives to do just that, he may forget why he originally made the game; to have fun, to create entertainment.
~That may well lead to the focus on plotscripting instead of enjoyment for the player. (not to mention it will take a while to make that plotscript).

Shadowiii · **It's been real.** Joined: 14 Feb 2003 Posts: 2460

LongeBane · Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 312 Location: Tomorrow

Well, I understand now, being you do not specifically needed to make an RPG. But understanding that, I realize the progress James has made after the invention of Plotscript is useless? We should still all value what James has done for the OHR's battle system. We should utilize it and not ignore it. Some of us can wander of and make ambitious "side quests" to RPGs, but none of us should forget that there IS a battle system engine and it is there only to make OHR more powerful.

MultiColoredWizard · Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:39 pm Post subject:

"Then again, the main goal of the OHR was not for making a sidescroller (though James has allowed that to happen)."
OH NO WE HAVE UPSET THE GREAT GOD.
Was the internet made primarily for pornography? No. Do I like it? Hell yes. Is that related to the subject at hand? Yes. The goal of the OHR was for people without any programming knowledge to be able to create RPGs. Some people, however, knew they could make better, and so they did.

"We make games for so they can be fun, yes. That is what games are, for entertainment. However, OHR was not initially designed for that (which brings out a different point in my article)."
OHR not designed for fun and entertainment? Christ.

"IT can still make it but developers can find that some other engines can do that more well than the OHR."
I still say that it's better to make a sidescroller on the OHR rather than something like, say, Jamagic.

"It is much more difficult to achieve on the OHR, though not impossible."Bullshit. I've tried several game making engines, and I go to the OHR a lot more for that.

" And when a developer strives to do just that, he may forget why he originally made the game; to have fun, to create entertainment."
And yet you stated that the OHR was not initially designed for that. I could completely humiliate you here.. but I'll save that for later.. This is too great.

Shadowiii · **It's been real.** Joined: 14 Feb 2003 Posts: 2460

LongeBane · Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 312 Location: Tomorrow

I just realized I put that in the wrong place.

oops.

heh, no , mcm, OHR IS for enjoyment and entertainment. I meant that it is not initially meant to make a sidescroller. phew.

Oh, and you know why you cannot find other good engines? Because you do not actually study them! You have been with the ohr for quite a while, I noticed. But I intended this for those who just arrived and are not sure of what to make.