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RPG Design Pet Peeves
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Shaede
Tuck in your shirt.




Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few pet peeves of mine:

Extremely long opening screens filled with chapters of text. A good example of this is Final Fantasy Tactics. The long chapters of extremely slow scrolling text at the beginning made me want to yank my hair out. Of course, the battle and cutscene beforehand offset this to hold my interest. Most OHR games which includes a book-worth of backstory at the beginning are closed before I even give them a chance, though.

Extremely high encounter rates. This annoys the hell out of my.

Extremely difficult and ointless puzzles. I -love- puzzles, but pointless ones piss me off.

An extremely difficult puzzle with a high encounter rate during the puzzle! Oh God, I want to hurt the designer so bad when this happens. Its frustrating, not fun!

Uselessly open maps with wide areas of nothing to add to pointless travel time. Leave this kinda stuff for MMORPGs, please.

Being able to save at a "dead end", like the last dungeon of Lunar : SSS. Always give the player a shop or something to fall back to.

Incredibly easy random encounters followed by near impossible bosses. I usually judge how well I can handle the area's boss by how well I can handle the random encounters. Its no fun to tear through 10,000 enemies only to get raped through your pants by the boss at the end (Think Xenogears). It is likewise no fun to barely survive the random enemies and kill the boss as if it was nothing (Think FFX-2).

Thats all I can think of now, but I'm a grumpy, picky old gamer. I could go on forever most likely...
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JSH357




Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 1705

PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ATB annoys me.

I hate waiting for a turn to come up.
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Solsund
Prosecutor of Pathetic Programming




Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:12 pm    Post subject: Suicidal Enemies Reply with quote

Suicidal Enemies is what I hate about most RPG's.

When you are level one and just a scrawny little guy you'd expect something like an Imp or a Slime to think "Hey, I can kick this guys ASS!". However when you are bulked up with magical glowing armor and have such an aura of power that you short out sensitive electrical devices in the area and that same slime thinks "Hey, I can kick this guys ASS!" it gets terribly annoying.

That's why I LOVED Earthbound. After you wiped out a boss in an area it scared the shit out of all the enemies in the area and they would run away from you.

Not to mention, if you did get in a battle and were powerful enough the game would just flash and you'd win the battle. You never even had to fight it yet you'd still get the Exp and items, with no HP loss.

More games needed to have features like this.
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HaveWeLostOurWay
whats the answer to this question?




Joined: 05 Jul 2004
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Location: winthrop maine

PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some things that piss me off -

turned based games, i hate it with a passion.

game that leave out important info, like where to go, and what a certain item does for your hero. "hmm this weapon costs 5000 gold, which cost way more than the one i have right now. It must be better, but i duno what it does... i'll buy it anyways... lets see what happends:

1. your hero can't equip it
2. it does less damage than your original
3. and the reason it cost more was because it had an aura that does plus 20 to intelligence, which does nothing for your hero, because he's a fighter rather than a magic user.

repetitive enemies, "oh look theres an amazing detailed looking orc... and a red orc... and oh... a blue orc?... wait... a purple orc... ooooh i get it... he's just harder to beat Ha ha ha!... i get it..." or when you beat a boss... who comes up in the game as a different colored enemy. or when they take one enemy, and then just call it something else... without even changing the color or anything, "whoa a "dragon"... wait i think ive seen this guy before, wasn't he called "large lizard" before"

bosses who are way too easy and they hype everything up to make it seem like its going to be this really cool battle, " :flamedevil: roar i am satan, the time has come for us to battle! -hero attacks *shiiinnnnggg*, :flamedevil: aaaah! you have defeated me!"

mini-bosses who say the same thing, "You may have defeated my predecessor, but you will never defeat me" that tends to get a little old after awhile.

sissy heros, "if you don't want to do it don't do it, i mean your just a little kid, a monster would rip you head off and shit down it if you tried to fight him. oooh the all powerful mage said it was your destiny... well i guess your screwed then, who knows maybe it won't be so bad.

:edit: the reason i hate turned based games is because you have to wait for everyone else to go before you get to go again. unlike the way ohr games work how its all based upon speed and who's meter finishes first
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Last edited by HaveWeLostOurWay on Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Machu
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Joined: 09 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
turned based games, i hate it with a passion.


Why?
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*Worthy*
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Joined: 11 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What kind of bosses do you all like? Short & hard, short & easy, long & hard, long & easy, or somewhere in between? Obviously, some bosses should be harder than normal; some bosses, easier than normal. But what do you think the typical boss should be?

Personally, I like an averaged-length and challenging boss. There's nothing more that I hate than an hour long insanely difficult boss; dying over and over after 45 minutes of fighting kinda pisses me off...

~Worthy
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MultiColoredWizard
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Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

give me a strategic fight and i'm happy.
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*Worthy*
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Joined: 11 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. I hate bosses that you have to hold hold down the "enter" button (or however you attack) until the boss is defeated.

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junahu
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate collecting 3 of something then being told to turn right back around and collect 5 or 8 of something else from the same area (Think zelda).

I also hate it when they give you a yes/no question where there are no consequences at all for getting it wrong. That's why I loved the first streets of rage game. Answer the final boss's question incorrectly and you were slapped all the way back 3 levels.

And I really detest wondering around, aimlessly (Purgatory and city of dreams are prime suspects of this). It isn't funny.
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junahu
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004
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Location: Hull, England

PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(looks at previous posts) oh. whoops.

erm... I prefer bosses you can fight in many different ways. So it doesn't feel like the game is decriminating against you for trying something odd.
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Shadowiii
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Joined: 14 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bosses should be short but hard, or long but hard. Easy long bosses are just tedious. You know, the ones that only do you 5 damage and you only do 5 damage to so you just go back and forth for twenty zillion hours.

Greatest OHR Pet Peeve: Slow ATB gauge. Most OHR battles are NOT fast paced. It is my personal opinion that the SLOWEST the "Speed" variable should be on a hero (for normal fighting, it can decrease when you equip some really powerful heavy weapon or whatever) should be 20. If not, battles are slow and tedious.

Second Greatest OHR Pet Peeve: Spells suck. 90% of spells suck. I don't know why, because it is easy when making "skill" spells to set the damage % up by 25% or whatever, and also you could just make magic stats higher then regular attack stats. But, sadly, by the end of the game most magic spells in OHR games are weaker then just mashing the space bar down, which makes for a really dull battle.

Back to bosses, the way I see it bosses should always make you have to heal at least once in the battle, or drive all your characters to the point of death. If the bosses aren't hard...what's the point? Most people (myself included) save rare items and whatnot so we can beat the crap out of some boss, and it's a waste if it dies on the first "Armageddon" spell or whatever.
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Aethereal
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Joined: 04 Jan 2003
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Location: Gone! I pop in on occasion though.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Greatest OHR Pet Peeve: Slow ATB gauge. Most OHR battles are NOT fast paced. It is my personal opinion that the SLOWEST the "Speed" variable should be on a hero (for normal fighting, it can decrease when you equip some really powerful heavy weapon or whatever) should be 20. If not, battles are slow and tedious.

Second Greatest OHR Pet Peeve: Spells suck. 90% of spells suck. I don't know why, because it is easy when making "skill" spells to set the damage % up by 25% or whatever, and also you could just make magic stats higher then regular attack stats. But, sadly, by the end of the game most magic spells in OHR games are weaker then just mashing the space bar down, which makes for a really dull battle.


The problem is that 90% of OHRers do not play their game through before releasing it, and therefore do not realize that the ATB gauge is very slow or the spells are worthless. :\
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Friend




Joined: 06 Feb 2003
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Location: California

PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I should make note to keep the maps compact. They should be linear from point A to point B and short in distance. Just like most OHR games. The purpose of exploration is to gather information and items. I don't want to lump all the information/items in one map or place them close in proximity to other clues. Just imagine how convinient it would be if Zelda would just place all the power-up items in one map. Joy. That would make my day.
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SlightlyPyro
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Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Greatest OHR Pet Peeve: Slow ATB gauge. Most OHR battles are NOT fast paced. It is my personal opinion that the SLOWEST the "Speed" variable should be on a hero (for normal fighting, it can decrease when you equip some really powerful heavy weapon or whatever) should be 20. If not, battles are slow and tedious.


YES! It drives me nuts when fighting battles is like a slug race: everyone has the same speed of 0. Personally, I like a guy who's *really* fast, but does only moderate damage combined with another guy who's only moderately fast, but does plenty of damage. If I can't find a natural combo like this in a game, I usually end up making one by loading one guy down with armor and weapons and having another that is the lightweight.

I also despise when games have one hero...just one. One hero to slay the dragon, one hero to save the princess, one hero to kill the sorceror, one hero to blah, blah, blah... A good game NEEDS multiple heros. One guy doesn't save the world.
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Inferior Minion
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Joined: 03 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

junahu wrote:
And I really detest wondering around, aimlessly (Purgatory and city of dreams are prime suspects of this). It isn't funny.


It really depends on the map design and interest I have in the story/world created by the game.

In the case of Purgatory, the main character wakes up in dazed state, unaware of what is happening exactly. The surroundings are familiar, yet wrought with destruction. A school, a hospital, a park...all with the feel of a massive earthquake or similar disaster. To top it off, there are creatures lurking about.

You, as the main character, have no idea what is going on and aren't the strongest fighter. It's not a blazing fists type of game. It's a survival game...you can avoid most of the fights with patience and strategy. It also strives on exploration. Vaguely familiar suroundings, but a lack of memory and the catastrophe hinders you. As you explore (yes...explore...the maps are very well planned, the maptiles are exceptional...you weren't wandering aimlessly through a sea of the same thing over and over again), you find notes and clues to help you on your journey...an explanation of how the security lock works for instance...as well as a slow regaining of your memory. The story slowly pans out, leaving questions....gaps...things to keep you enthralled in the world Orchie created.

If you couldn't tell, Purgatory is my second favorite OHR Game...second to City of Dreams. CoD is Purgatory without the fighting and an even better story line. In Purgatory, survival was pretty darn hard. In CoD, the puzzles are truely a challenge. Unlike Purgatory, the threat of death isn't around every corner. Instead, you're in a barren city. With a flash your memories of this place slowly pan out...an empty journal slowly being refilled as you reflect on your childhood. A story of friendship and love as you retrace your past. It's a touching story with an excellent execution.

Again, if you don't get immersed in this world, you probably won't enjoy the game. If you see it as mindless wandering, you're not taking in the world around you as you walk...you're most likely not going to finish this game and will have to ask for help. It's a stroll down memory lane with the journal as your guide. Orchie's world is expansive. It's a city. If it wasn't as big as he made it...it wouldn't feel right. If you're not talking to NPCs, you won't get into the story. This game is about discovery.

Immersion is my pet peeve as a player. If I can't get into the story...if I can't get into the world created....if there's a lack of character development or plot...I won't play the game for very long. I'm the type of player who reads what every single NPC says, twice...sometimes a third time just to see if they say different things. The minor details like that really add to the value of a game in my mind. Sure, I can blast through the game in 2 hours (and maybe with the promise of a better ending, I might try to), but what's the point. There are times when a town has a sense of urgency...an "I've gotta go destroy this monster and save the children" kinda feel...in which case I probably won't speak to all the NPCs before I run out to fight evil. The game has enthralled me enough to envoke that sense of urgency. It's the sign of a great game.

That was a bit long winded, but I always tend to go off on tangents. Oookay...

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