Castle Paradox

[Camdog]

Allright, I have to confess, I haven't quite finished the game. I had no idea it was so damn long! But, I figure I'd post my impressions so far to get the discussion rolling, and then finish in a few days and talk about my final thoughts.

First, the good: I loved the gameplay. The fact that basically every move affected your stats in some way made every battle thoughtful and challenging. I'd say this system is more fun than many professional games I've played.

I especially loved the jade countdown. It gave a nice sense of urgency, and really made you think about leveling, but what was really great was that the mechanic related to the theme of the game. Gameplay and plot synergy rules!

However, I liked the story and characterization a lot less. This is clearly a game with an agenda. I don't mind when a game tries to inject a little philosophy into the story, but I would prefer it not to be applied with a sledgehammer. Here, it seems like every conversation, every plot point, devolves into a lecture.

Worse, I find the philosophy the game seems to espouse pretty distasteful. It seems to be some kind of Ayn Rand redux, talking about how individuality and self-interest is the most important thing. Now, I'm all for individuality, but the game somehow takes this idea and uses it to imply that, say, all unemployed people are greedy and lazy.

[slight spoiler ahead]

I think the best example of this is in Cyport, where the teacher has been cleared out of his job and replaced in order to provide a free education fo all. You help revert the public school system to the old private model and once again the teacher is getting paid what he deserves! It's all peaches and cream. Of course, the game doesn't mention the kids who were kicked out of the school for being unable to pay.

[end spoiler]

Still, despite the hero's somewhat childlike viewpoint on the world (everything is black and white!), at least they have a viewpoint. The bad guys seemed to be unclear what exactly they were trying to do. They waffle back and forth between talking about how we should help others, to how truth is relative, to how they wish they could just die. What is Gahn trying to do, exactly? (Other than make people miserable). They seem like some kind of charicatured socialist straw men. I'd like a little more bad guy motivation/personality please.

Still, maybe things clear up at the end. In the mean time, I AM still enjoying the game. The gameplay makes up for all the Ayn Rand style ranting, and I'm looking forward to playing some more tonight.

I do have to say, I totally hate Mi'La. Goddamn, why do the rest put up with her? Did she seriously argue that it is impossible for any statement to be partially right and partially wrong? What the fuck?

Anyway... other thoughts?

P.S. I found a minor bug. It's possible to run from the fight with Manx.

P.P.S. Hey Fyre, are you a Terry Goodkind fan, by any chance?

[Friend]

Well, I don't know what to say about the storyline. I personally don't have much problem with it or find it pretentious, but I can understand why you think that way. I think I'm just too used to talking to charbile. I find the storytelling enjoyable, despite the somewhat slow start (the proem.) I think it might be better to put the proem much, much later into the game; revealing what has happened in the past bit by bit (the game keeps referring to that scene in a very mysterious manner anyway.)

On top of my head, I really like the way the towns are structured. They feel much more alive compared to any town treatment I've seen in OHR games. The townsfolks do things throughout the day/night cycle instead of just standing around doing nothing. There are also plenty of events spread throughout the day/night cycle, which make exploring the town fun.

ps, I hope you're gearing for the best ending possible. While I really like the game, I would rather not play the game all over again.
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"I am Collins. From my position in the moon's orbit, I watched Armstrong and Aldrin land and walk on the surface. I was so close to the ground of the moon, and yet I returned without having trod upon it... I am Collins." -Friend

[Moogle1]

First, a point of administration: We should by no means need to put spoiler warnings on a thread intended for discussing a game its readers should have completed.

My thoughts on the gameplay: The beginning (post-intro) was too hard; past that, it went from just right to way too easy. The Jade Countdown was great, but quickly became a non-issue for anyone who has any clue what he's doing.

And speaking of knowing what you're doing, if you don't realize that you need to train to boost your stats, there's no way you'll ever pass the first dungeon.

The story was well-developed, though it borders on preachy pretty often; the gameplay was enjoyable (the skill system was a lot of fun); and the graphics were excellent. The game has its share of secrets and Easter eggs that reward a bit of exploration.

Even if you don't subscribe to the philosophy promoted by the game, it's possible to enjoy it for what it is. The game rewards you for following a Rand-esque behavior system, but it's entirely possible to make it through the game without doing so (except to the extent automated by the storyline and some sparing non-optional events). Critics of the game likely haven't played it for more than an hour or two. In terms of gameplay alone, it is one of the best OHR games.
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Slime Salad :: Independent Game Design

[JSH357]

If it seems like I'm leaving anything out, it's because I played this a week after it came out (to the end) and haven't touched it since.

I guess I'm in the minority in thinking that the battles were weak throughout the entire game. A lot of this I feel has to do with my prior experience with the OHR, but the early battles feel overconstructed (almost as if you're expected to use a certain strategy against them, which is not always so easy to guess). Once you unlock the good abilities, this goes away, but then the battles become repetitive to the point where there's no point in fighting at all. (I started running through 70% of non-boss battles about halfway through the game, which caused me to miss some items, but didn't affect my skill in battle)

The idea of having statistics raised outside of battle was interesting, but kind of took away from the RPG feel. I didn't care much for the equipment system, but some of the item names were funny (especially toward the end) so I won't complain about it too much.

There are two things about Sword of Jade that I liked a lot: first, the graphics and music were incredible. Really, I can't say much more about them other than that they must be seen and heard. Dogero's walkabout is a little fruity, but other than that it's all good. The other thing I liked a lot was the emphasis on town exploration, although I didn't like being docked huge amounts of points for wanting to hear conversations. The NPCs are for the most part well-placed and designed. Some of the references to OHR people I thought were a little cruel (with the mask of being 'meaningful'), but it's not like the creators of the game are known for being friendly.

Some things I didn't like: first off, saving. In PC games, I really prefer being able to save at more of a whim. There isn't a good way to save in this game without allowing the player to cheat, but I still felt a little tortured by the lack of save points. (One time the game bugged out too, and I had to repeat an area)

Another thing I didn't like was, as some have mentioned, the sledgehammer-like philosophy. For serious, I thought I was reading Rinku's livejournal in some parts. There were times when a character would blurt out some heroist one-liner after a conversation that was only vaguely related. I think some subtlety would have done this game wonders.

I thought Gahn was a boring character. It's obvious Charbile was trying to pit him as a pathetic individual hiding behind something blahblahblah. I respect the philosophy behind it, but it really did make him kind of one-dimensional, and having a weak nemesis makes the conflict feel a lot less important.

I also disliked most of the cast. Furries I can deal with, but I can't deal with emo or objectivist furries (hyuck hyuck). *ahem* What I mean is, Mi'La's dialogue is meaninglessly pretentious and annoying; Johan is like every other cheerful RPG character in existence; and the fourth character is just kinda boring. I thought Dogero was a pretty well-developed character, but he should find better taste in friends.

The last thing I disliked was that the method of finding the second ending is not brought up at all in the main storyline, so you can potentially get trapped in the last area of the game without having any idea that you missed something important. (It almost happened to me, but I had an outside save) When I went to rebuild the Sword of Jade, the bosses were too easy to be fun.

All in all, I think it's worth playing if you have ~10 hours available. Probably a 4 or 4.5/5. Don't play it if you REALLY, REALLY can't stand pretentious people, because most of the dialogue will have you skipping. Great aesthetics. It's at least worth downloading and seeing some of the art.

[LongeBane]

I've completed this game without too much trouble. Don't know why so many people complain that it was too long or too hard. Maybe they're all used to waltzing through ohr dungeons? The difficulty seemed just right.

Notably though, was the first one or two hours of gameplay. Those seem the toughest, battle-wise. Perhaps it was not the best decision to create such a learning curve that would later plummet. From what I had speculated, the purpose of the beginning's difficulty was for the player to feel the same way as Dogero does at the beginning- weak and powerless. And as the game progresses, the player finds the enemies less and less of a challenge, until finally, nothing could stop him. If the player had given up at the beginning, he would have failed the game's philosophy; never give up!

This is where Mi'la comes into play. However pretentious her dialogue may be (which I didn't mind myself), she kept Dogero in the race to the finish. There isn't too many ways to convince someone who is down to get back up. I thought Mi'la's approach was fine, and didn't mind whatever philosophy she was giving me. I didn't have to take it in, or accept it. She was just saying what she believed.

As for the "difficulty" to save, I think that was necessary, to increase tension and desperation. If you could save whenever you wanted, that would decrease your fear of any decision you make.

The town dialogue was exceptional. Most of it is unnecessary to pay attention to, since they usually only add more days to the countdown. If you didn't like the dialogue, you really don't have to talk to them. I felt that they had much more character than traditional npcs, in that they each had their own plotline (which is ridden with even more of the author's philosophies).

Whether you accept the philosophy of the game or not, this game is very accessible nonetheless. Graphics and map design are very nicely done. Definitely a recommended play.

[Camdog]

On the administration...

[Calehay]

Sadly, I'm stuck at the bug that Camdog stated in an earlier thread, but I can give a few comments from so far.

So, this was my second time up to this point (my first game didn't have the problem with this on a different computer. I assume this one is just not that good.) and I was able to see this game in a different light. I was afraid that I would find that I didn't like it as much as I had before because I might have been blinded by the superb graphics, but I'm happy to report that that was not the case. Actually, I understood a lot more what was happening than I did before.

However, a few of the qualms that I had with the game before stayed the same.

I don't particularly like the saludist. I don't know, but after I found the hidden money, I was compelled to just train up to as high as I could get, and it definitely made the game easier, and if I can get past this, I hope to do something similar in the town that I'm in now. What would be interesting is if saludists disappear from the game later, or decrease in the value they can train you (and if that is what happens, then I'm a psychic, or I'm just on the same mental wavelengths of others.)

Generally, the whole thing is very well written, though I do see a few instances where the author is standing behind a visage of the character as opposed to allowing the character to speak. So far, this has happened in the NPC conversations, usually the ones that up the Jade Countdown. Sometimes, these conversations just don't seem like something the main characters would engage in. But there haven't been too many of those things, and they haven't detracted too much from the gameplay.

The Jade Countdown. I know I'm in the minority here, but it seems to me like a small little thing that doesn't really matter, and is just attempting to intimidate me. Of course, the plot wouldn't work without it, and I definitely can live with it, and may soon come to like it, but at the moment, when I have about 35 days before it's over, it doesn't really seem too important to care about. Maybe there should be an extremist version where the days are very limited?

Overall, so far, it's definitely the most accomplished OHR game that has been released so far. I'll have to play it some more to see if it could contend with the big boys, but so far it's been rather enjoyable.

(Does anyone know a workaround to the quarternion bug? Could I play that battle with a different version and then come back to it?)
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Calehay

[Moogle1]

The Countdown accomplishes its purpose whether or not it made any gameplay difference. As far as sick combos, it seems everyone found different abilities useful. I thought Mi'la was really weak (all talk and no show!), while others used her to boost Dogero and to poison enemies.

A little-known fact (and maybe a bit of a spoiler -- read at your own risk): During the last battle, TrueJade becomes active. If you don't use it, the last battle will take forever. I'm talking about the full-party battle, not the one-on-one, where the skill is pretty much necessary.

The anthropomorphism gives the game kind of an Aesop's Fable feel, emphasizing the morality behind it even further.

My big, lingering question about the game: Why the Valorians? It was kind of obvious that they weren't going to win the game for you (wouldn't that be anticlimactic?), but so much emphasis was put on finding them when time might be better spent just going straight for Gahn (fifth Valorian notwithstanding).
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Slime Salad :: Independent Game Design

[FyreWulff]

This is going to take me a while to reply to the various posts in this thread, but do keep in mind Jade was originally thought up as a series of multiple games - so while some storyline threads were resolved, others were left unexplained or unresolved to be explained in a prequel or sequel.

Now to start typing..

edit: since everyone's posts are really long, I just pick a few for each of my posts and reply to them, until I get around to all of them.

[FyreWulff]

[Camdog]

As far as the Jade Countdown goes, I definitely had no problem with it (I don't believe my countdown ever dropped below 20 days), however, it did give a sense of urgency, provide incentive for sidequests I may have skipped or simply looked for less hard, and prevent me from stat-busting with a saludin; I really had to think about my stat gain choices. So, overall, I'd say the Jade Countdown mechanic was a success. It would be nice to see a little less time in a future release/hard type version/whatever though.

[Moogle1]

It's been awhile, but I think I ended up using Johan to boost the other party members with Motivate and, uh, something else (I think he has an ability that raises speed -- Hurry?), while everyone else basically just busted out their high-damage attacks. I probably also abused SpeedStrike a bit.
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Slime Salad :: Independent Game Design

[JSH357]

I used a combination of Dogero's power attacks, Zigstrike, Double/Triple shot (I think?) and something with Pyrus. I usually kept Pyrus open as a utility character. I don't see why any other strategy would have been necessary until the final battles.

[LongeBane]

The countdown really scared me the most. I had 1 day left, 3/4 of the game through. The nearest countdown-increasing npc was still very far. I had to reset the game several times until I found the shortest path to reach him. Scary.

[Onlyoneinall]

Before I give my thoughts, how do I assemble the Sword of Jade? I'm guessing that you need to find Scarf four times, but I've only found him three (the most recent in the desert). What do I do to assemble it?
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http://www.castleparadox.com/gamelist-display.php?game=750 Bloodlust Demo 1.00