Castle Paradox

[J.A.R.S.]

I'm not sure if it's been asked in the past (I somewhat seem to remember a likened topic) but I was wondering what you guys think could replace an endgame final boss assuming one was to make an RPG that ended "differently"... by extension, this question also asks what other "testing" factors can be made other than bosses that are yet epic (not sure a puzzle is epic btw...)
Since, generally, in RPGs, Bosses are the test you must beat in order to pursue in the story (and the monsters are simply the attrition that attempts to get you to fail in the face of the upcoming test, as well as reducing your resources, etc)... Therefore, what might there be aside from bosses, and if so, what form of attrition can there be in that specific case? (monsters to bosses, ? (not clues since they do are quite the opposite) to puzzles, etc)

[Artimus Bena]

Well, if the outcome of the game is static, then the last challenge could simply be a very prolonged, difficult part of the game where every bit of knowledge, items, exp. gained will have to be exploited to win, and sparingly.

But this works better for action games.

And this would be why rpgs tend to use the "boss" theory. I think what you might do is read up on a few books\stories out there that do not use classic pro\antagonist plot devices, get a feel for how that was done, and find some way to reproduce that in the game format.
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[Camdog]

This is exactly what I tried to do with the Ritual, since an end boss didn't fit with the story. Instead, I made the final section as challenging as possible. I personally think this worked out well, but a lot of people complained about the lack of a final boss. I don't know if this has been ingrained in us by all the other RPGs we've played, or there's something deeply psychological about it, or what, but people do seem to find defeating a final big bad guy more satisfying than simply making it through a tough dungeon.

[Moogle1]

The reason I didn't think it worked well was because there was no indication that it was the final challenge. If you're going to take out the final boss, you'd better make it clear to the player that this is it. Change the music, heighten the suspense, pull out all the stops.
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Slime Salad :: Independent Game Design

[J.A.R.S.]

I think in most people's mind, a game's closure happens when all problems are unified into one entity and that this entity is vanquished... Not sure if that is a necessary thing, but even so, I am sure there are other "centralised" ways of making all the problems go than a boss... I just have never really found any. As far as books come along, those I read, despite not always relying upon the dark shadow of the antagonism of two men did seem to end up with an epic duel nonetheless... These were fantasy books. On the other hand, science-fiction, and dramas, are not quite what the game is all about either, so this isn't exactly helping me. Did you have any book in mind I could work from?

[msw188]

Well, probably the most famous fantasy book of all time, the Lord of the Rings, has no epic duel. In fact, the good guys use the ruse of an epic duel to take the Enemy's attention away from the real plan, destroying the Ring. In video game terms, it could be interesting if the main source of evil was not a character, but an item. This could allow a sense of closure for ridding the world of the ultimate evil without resorting to a final battle with some kind of boss. But there must be some difficult, yet believable final challenge to be able to destroy the item...
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[Newbie_Power]

In my sick and twisted cliche would, I would use a boss anyway, because I'm not just testing a character, I'm testing a player.
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[Clamps]

It really depends on the game's plot. Game's with a big evil villain generally require a final confrontation. Anything else is anti-climatic. Still, some random ideas.

1.) A deathtrap. Requires all your skills. Doesn't necessarily mean a Bond-style deathtrap. Escaping from a space station that's falling apart would be a good example.
2.) A dramatic conversation/dialog tree. I've never seen a game end like this, but Knights of the Old Republic 2 ends it's Taris section that way, with the "fight" against Atris.
3.) Evasion. The big bad enemy is trying to kill you, and you have to accomplish some task, like shutting down the doomday beam or sealing the ancient demon magic. That, not killing the enemy, is what wins the game.
4.) Accomplishing an objective. Killing the evil wizard who kidnapped the princess is great, but the real end of the game is scaling the tower she's in to rescue her.

That's really all I've got. There are nearly infinite ways to end your game, of course, but these are the only ones I can think of that really apply to the standard set of RPGs plots with villains.

[FnrrfYgmSchnish]

The good old "you beat the final boss, but now you have escape from the base before it explodes and kills you" thing always works if you want a challenge at the end of the game that's not just another boss.

Of course, it'd seem a little repetitive if you already did a "escape the exploding base" thing earlier. Or maybe that could be expanded into a whole game--there's not too many bosses (or puzzles, minigames, etc.), but each one has a bigger and more complicated self-destructing base to escape from afterward. I think I remember there being an NES or SNES game that did that, actually...

[Fenrir-Lunaris]

[Rya.Reisender]

I just want to add Lufia 2 and City of Dreams.

Also Doukutsu's Hell Ending wouldn't have needed a final boss after going through... hell.


But seriously, I couldn't live without a boss at the end. Even if the evil was an item like a Ring, in an RPG I would still expect some "Spirit of the Ring" pop up at the end.

Also for some reason I have to think of Phantasy Star 3 where the final boss is in a treasure chest.


Alternatives to final bosses? There are some things I could imagine (apart from "escape from the exploding base"):

1. During the game you learn a lot things about the world and in the final challange you have to answer to riddles you can only answer when knowing the world well.

2. Imagine Brave Fencer Musashi going only up to the last but one boss! For those who don't know this game, the last but one boss is like "Um... I'm against violence... so let's settle this with dance dance revolution!".

3. If the whole game takes place into a dungeon / maze / labyrinth / underground / cube-like slaughter machine or similar, you won't need a final boss. The ending is clearly defined when finding a way out.

[Moogle1]

[The Drizzle]

[Rya.Reisender]

Not really. There's no real exit in Fatal Maze, it's a very depressive game, thus it needs a final boss. :p

[The Drizzle]

Lighten up. It's still funny.

There's no exit in fatal maze? Now I'm glad that I didn't finish that game. That would've severely pissed me off.
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