Castle Paradox

[djfenix]

I've just finished FFTA2, and although i've enjoyed it thoroughly, I came to realized, there just isn't much strategy involved. Mostly throughout the game, it simply came down to dishing out the most damage and healing. The only bits of real strategy involved sending which units to which targets and the occasional buffs/debuffs.

And, frankly, most other SRPGs pretty much simply come down to high damage and healing---practically identical to that of a regular jRPG with the addition of movement of range. So i thought: what exactly could be done to have the "strategy" the main emphasis on the battles of an SRPG? Something the truly requires thought to the point where you could take a lvl 1 party and manage to beat a group of lvl 30s if you played your cards right.

So I pondered, and pondered. And i came to the conclusion that the strategy depends on the types of abilities that are given. Something more than just attacks and the standard paralyze/slow/blind/etc.

And my idea, as lucrative as it sounds, is this:

Naruto.

Yes, you read right.

Although, i'm no longer a fan of Naruto (or anime in general, really), if you translate some of the abilities from Naruto into an SRPG, you'd have a whole lot of strategy on your hands (and seeing as how most battles in Naruto seem like impossible odds, it would be comparable to lvl 1 vs lvl 30)

Think about some of the abilities in Naruto, and see how it would work in an RPG:

Clone techniques: Most clones in Naruto are merely illusions, so an ability to summon controllable clones would allow for some confusion to the enemies and thus wasting their turns. And Naruto's clones are actual replicas that can use the same abilities as him.

Transformations: Illusion techniques that allow the caster to change into objects, peoples, etc. Still thinking of practical uses other than just hiding from enemies.

Shikamaru's Shadowbind: Regardless of how strong the opponent is, this ability would always succeed. This allows the caster to force the enemy to mimic movements. So if a lvl 1 player uses this on a lvl 30 player, they can then control the enemy to attack the enemy

Ino's Body Swap: Disables the caster, but allows control over the enemy. Sorta like the above, but damaged to the enemy in control would result in damage to the caster.

Neji/Hinata's Byakugan: First off, for this to work, there would needed to be line of site/fog of war. Basically, something that would prevent characters from visibly seeing other characters on the field, even an invisible spell would suffice. The castor would be free from the fog of war and be able to detect anything on the field.

Kiba's scent: If eyesight is a hindrance, than an alternative to detecting enemies would be smell. Basically, an alternative to the above.

And opposite to the above, there could be spells that would add fog to prevent characters from actually being seen in closer range.


Of course, there are so many other abilities that would work---i'm just throwing it up in the air. Of course, for this to work, there would have to be an emphasis on the tactical abilities rather than the damage dealing ones. I wanna try making some sort of tech demo for this concept, but i probably would get to it for a looong time (see: never).

Anyways, thoughts? Comments? Opinions?

[LeRoy_Leo]

First I will say that I agree entirely. I am also not a huge Naruto lover, but I will admit that they have some interesting ideas and techniques.
I see where you are going with this.

What if damage and numbers weren't what mattered? Let's say focal points determined effectiveness of attacks. Hit the enemy on the head, legs, arms, shoulders, knees, abdomen, etc. Also accuracy, block (reflex), and strength come into play. Instead of Hit points, characters have a chance to defend and a chance to avoid serious peril. If they are successfully hit, they might survive and just become really weak or they might flat out die. Getting successfully impaled by a polearm or stuck with a blade will kill you, either instantly or slowly. My proposition is they block the attack and become weaker or they die. This makes players think carefully before attacking and forces them to use more strategy, like in real life battles. Of course, for the sake of game play, the player can be revived by certain other characters. Likewise for the opponent, so choosing your target is important too. A Healer should be near the top of the list of targets to eliminate.
When it comes to Spell casters that use abilities to hurl balls of fire or ice or what-not at a character, there are penalties to their attacks as well. Characters can side step the attack (and become a little weaker) or they can take the full force of the attack, which might come with added effects such as stun or poison.
Basically, tactics system, but you wear your opponent's stats down until they can no longer fight and have to submit. It's the basic concept that HP came from, except more complex.
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---msw188 ---
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[Rya.Reisender]

I don't really like it when SRPGs get too strategical. FFTA already has too many rules and systems that it's not enjoyable at all. The only SRPG I really enjoyed is Shining Force which has pretty simple controls.

The most strategical SRPG is probably Fire Emblem. One wrong step and your character is dead... forever. If you are looking for a more strategical SRPG, play one part of the Fire Emblem series. I highly recommend it.

Other SRPGs I liked are Disgaea and Crystal Warriors and Royal Stone. Disgaea is kind of strategical because of the Geo Puzzles, however I didn't like the Geo Puzzles in Disgaea at all, I wish the game was only about dealing more and more damage. Crystal Warriors and Royal Stone are actually quite strategical similar to Fire Emblem, however they keep this strategy to a very simple system, you don't need to worry about items as much as in Fire Emblem, so the strategy really only focuses on the placement of your characters which makes it much more enjoyable to me.

So I personally say no to complicated strategical system and yes to simple SRPGs that are fun. FFTA is already too strategical to be fun.
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Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
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[Newbie_Power]

[Rya.Reisender]

I didn't say it, but yeah FFT is even less enjoyable than FFTA, the moment after the first battle when the character screen popped up I instant quit it. I don't get why there are actually people who enjoy it.

Also according to what you say Fire Emblem HAS the tactics that FFTA lacks, so it's still a good example, non?

Whether you create strategy by status effects or by placing characters doesn't really matter too much, either the player has an option or the player has no option.
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Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

[Newbie_Power]

[Rya.Reisender]

Well the effectiveness of status effects varies strongly between games. In most games they are basically useless, in other games they make playing extremely easy. I personally never bother with status effects, unless I read in some walkthrough about a trick how to level fast by using them like in Disgaea where it's advised to just use the main character and then only take in mages and priests for buffs into the party and then wipe everything with the one hero (in Disgaea buffs stack). But even there it's still a lame tactic although effective. I rather just take fighter classes and try to survive honestly.
_________________
Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

[Newbie_Power]

[djfenix]

[Newbie_Power]

[Rya.Reisender]

[Newbie_Power]

[Moogle1]

[Rya.Reisender]

[Newbie_Power]

There need to be a reminder that strategy is a long term investment for winning, and tactics are short term actions based on the strategy.

FFT is more of a strategy game game, though FFT has more tactical gameplay than FFTA due to the CTB system, and abilities that revolve around it, creating something that isn't called button mashing. The strategy is invest time building up job levels and learning new abilities you want, and use those abilities to win battles.

Fire Emblem is much more of a tactical game for once, as the game uses level design and enemy placement to threaten your characters, and it comes with strategy as you will need to keep your units alive and well equipped for the game.

I will not call either of these games better than the other. That is a discussion for Moogle1 vs. Tactics Ogre fans to settle.

Tactics in RPGs are something that needs to be placed appropriately. For commonly fought battle formations, there just needs to be enough to make the player think about what they're doing, but not so much that it takes forever or is complex (FFX is a very good example of making very good random encounters).

Complex battles are well desired for "special" battle formations, such as mini-bosses, major bosses, or rare encounters, at the very least. Nobody likes a boss that you can beat spamming the X button, like pretty much everything in FFVIII.

EDIT: I can understand deviating from the norm, such as making most random battles complex, if you do that try to keep the encounter rate low enough so it won't be overly annoying since individual battles would be a drain alone.
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