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Castle Paradox
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Meatballsub
Divine Bovine
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 437
Location: Northwest Georgia
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 Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:10 am Post subject: OHRRPGCE Game Player on iPhone/iPod Touch |
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A few weeks ago while browsing some apps on my iPod touch, I realized just how many hits each program were getting. It's amazing how even the smallest, simple applications have reached over millions of people worldwide.
That got me to thinking; why not port OHRRPGCE's Game Player to the iPhone? I started looking at ways to develop applications, but got pretty overwhelmed. I know it wouldn't be an easy task to do, but I think it would be great exposure for the OHRRPGCE if you could play some of the games on the iPhone.
The only thing i'm not sure about how it would work is custom/additional controls. I guess there's a chance some games just would not work.
So, have any of you coding guru's thought about this? 
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the OHRRPGCE is written in FreeBasic, and freebasic's compiler only works for x86 processors. The iPhone uses an ARM processor.
OHRRPGCE-FMF aims to re-implement game in Java for mobile phones, however the iPhone (currently) has no native support for Java.
TMC is working on a project called fb2cpp that will allow us to compile the OHRRPGCE using a C++ compiler, so when that works, there is a decent chance of trying to port to other platforms. A Mac OS X port would probably have to happen first, and then if that works out, an iPhone port could come later. |
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TMC
On the Verge of Insanity
Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 3240
Location: Matakana
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:22 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I am working on it, dang it!
I'm glad that so many people are interesting in ports to all these different platforms. I think it's definitely a direction we should exploit, given our low, low system requirements.
I didn't get much done on fb2cpp for a couple of weeks, but it's moving quite quickly again and might be usable in a couple more. I don't really know how much work beyond that any given port would be. Luckily, we have a SDL backend. However, the SDL ports for some devices like the iPhone and DS are experimental and badly maintained, but reportedly working well for other people.
FB already has a Darwin port but I don't know its state: I don't think I've ever heard a single person confirm that it works, only people demanding a Mac OSX port.
I've thought about controls. I imagine that players would be able to assign keyboard scancodes to physical buttons on the device in the configuration menu that I keep suggesting, or game developers could set them up for them, and we'll add an onscreen keyboard for when typing is necessary.
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| The Mad Cacti wrote: | | FB already has a Darwin port but I don't know its state: I don't think I've ever heard a single person confirm that it works, only people demanding a Mac OSX port. |
I am fairly certain that the Darwin port of FreeBasic is still for intel processors only, which greatly limits its usefulness.
| The Mad Cacti wrote: | | I've thought about controls. I imagine that players would be able to assign keyboard scancodes to physical buttons on the device in the configuration menu that I keep suggesting, or game developers could set them up for them, and we'll add an onscreen keyboard for when typing is necessary. |
On my iPhone, I play emulators a lot, and I would like an interface similar to what they use, with a floating overlay of buttons. The phone's accelerometer could be used to switch from portrait to landscape mode.
We could also go a step further than the emulators, and allow touch-screen support in selected areas. Touchscreen menu item selection *might* work, but it might be too small. I think the place where touch selection could work best is in targeting attacks in battle.
And for the button overlay we could figure out a mechanism for authors to choose a few "important" buttons that could be made available, for example, a dash key in an rpg, or a "jump" button in a sidescroller.
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Meatballsub
Divine Bovine
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 437
Location: Northwest Georgia
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Meatballsub wrote: | | That mockup looks amazing, James :D |
Thanks-- although I am sure there will be a LOT of hard work before it becomes a reality. |
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Meatballsub
Divine Bovine
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 437
Location: Northwest Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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No doubt. I can't even imagine the time and work that would have to be put in to make something like this happen. But....it would be awesome nonetheless.
I mean honestly, I can't count how many apps I've downloaded that were sub-par. Even those that were crappy though have had hundreds of thousands of downloads. Even those who may not like it or be skeptical would likely download it, and any exposure would be good I suppose.
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TMC
On the Verge of Insanity
Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 3240
Location: Matakana
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| James Paige wrote: | | The phone's accelerometer could be used to switch from portrait to landscape mode. |
Wow, that is so brilliant. I suppose that's what the accelerometer is for. I've never seen an iPhone being used. I had actually forgotten that the iPhone doesn't have buttons!
| James Paige wrote: | | We could also go a step further than the emulators, and allow touch-screen support in selected areas. Touchscreen menu item selection *might* work, but it might be too small. |
Expanding menu items? Actually this reminds me of a certain feature request that would be a shame to forget about: '' . bug_title('702') . ''.
| James Paige wrote: | | And for the button overlay we could figure out a mechanism for authors to choose a few "important" buttons that could be made available, for example, a dash key in an rpg, or a "jump" button in a sidescroller. |
(Like I said, the player should be able to set them too.) 4 custom buttons might be a bit low for the odd game. I suggest a higher limit, and scaling button sizes.
The problem with the iPhone (and your mockups) is that the resolution is an odd size that isn't anywhere near an integer ratio of 320x200: it's 480x320. And I absolutely refuse to run any emulator at a non-integer scale factor! It drives me mad! Well, I guess I wouldn't be one having to put up with it.
I assume that in portrait mode (1.5x zoom?) those buttons wouldn't be overlaid permanently, but would disappear (after a while or on whatever criteria) hopefully even when being pressed?
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
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Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| The Mad Cacti wrote: |
| James Paige wrote: | | We could also go a step further than the emulators, and allow touch-screen support in selected areas. Touchscreen menu item selection *might* work, but it might be too small. |
Expanding menu items? Actually this reminds me of a certain feature request that would be a shame to forget about: '' . bug_title('702') . ''.
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Touch-screen menu items just seem like a problem to me since we allow so much flexibility in menu positioning.
Actually, none of the emulators I play on my phone support any kind of touchscreen in gameplay beyond the button overlay, so I for one wouldn't miss it if we didn't bother.
| The Mad Cacti wrote: |
| James Paige wrote: | | And for the button overlay we could figure out a mechanism for authors to choose a few "important" buttons that could be made available, for example, a dash key in an rpg, or a "jump" button in a sidescroller. |
(Like I said, the player should be able to set them too.) 4 custom buttons might be a bit low for the odd game. I suggest a higher limit, and scaling button sizes.
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Yeah, having definable special buttons for games would be a good feature now, regardless of handheld ports.
And yeah, we could add as many buttons as sensibly fit (although if you add too many they get to small and it becomes impossible for somebody with fat fingers to hit them with any accuracy.)
| The Mad Cacti wrote: |
The problem with the iPhone (and your mockups) is that the resolution is an odd size that isn't anywhere near an integer ratio of 320x200: it's 480x320. And I absolutely refuse to run any emulator at a non-integer scale factor! It drives me mad! Well, I guess I wouldn't be one having to put up with it. |
I have seen a couple approaches to this problem in emulators. The GOOD emulators give you a user-configurable choice between them.
* Don't scale - This results in a tiny screen, but is generally still playable
* Scale smoothly - In spite of the loss of pixel perfectness, this actually looks great. It looks more like playing on a TV than playing on a computer screen. This is a serious performance hit for most emulators. I don't know what our performance situation will be when we get this far.
* Scale badly - This gives you those awful doubled lines all over the place, but I have grudgingly gotten used to it, and usually play emulators in this mode. (though I appreciate the emulators that give me the choice to do otherwise)
| The Mad Cacti wrote: | | I assume that in portrait mode (1.5x zoom?) those buttons wouldn't be overlaid permanently, but would disappear (after a while or on whatever criteria) hopefully even when being pressed? |
Emus I have played leave the overlay up permanently, although the buttons are usually designed to be more translucent than what I put in the mockup. They generally also offer different button skins, and an invisible skin is usually available.
I think I would like translucent buttons that fade out, but flicker back into view on button-down events. I know that sounds visually annoying, but I think it would be good from a usability perspective (but I'm not positive. We'll have to experiment when we get here) |
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TMC
On the Verge of Insanity
Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 3240
Location: Matakana
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| James Paige wrote: | | The Mad Cacti wrote: |
Expanding menu items? Actually this reminds me of a certain feature request that would be a shame to forget about: '' . bug_title('702') . ''.
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Touch-screen menu items just seem like a problem to me since we allow so much flexibility in menu positioning. |
Are you talking about the possibility of overlapping menus? I hadn't thought of that, but otherwise I other see a problem, aside from probably being too tiny to hit.
Menu cursors could make it easier to drag your finger up and down to choose a selection.
| James Paige wrote: | | Yeah, having definable special buttons for games would be a good feature now, regardless of handheld ports. |
You've lost me. Are you talking about joystick buttons?
| James Paige wrote: | I have seen a couple approaches to this problem in emulators. The GOOD emulators give you a user-configurable choice between them.
* Don't scale - This results in a tiny screen, but is generally still playable
* Scale smoothly - In spite of the loss of pixel perfectness, this actually looks great. It looks more like playing on a TV than playing on a computer screen. This is a serious performance hit for most emulators. I don't know what our performance situation will be when we get this far.
* Scale badly - This gives you those awful doubled lines all over the place, but I have grudgingly gotten used to it, and usually play emulators in this mode. (though I appreciate the emulators that give me the choice to do otherwise) |
Hmm, I guess smoothing could work. Are you saying that it's unbearably slow on most emulators? I wonder whether there's a way to scale to 150% that doesn't cause any artefacts when sprites move about the screen.
And I wonder whether openGL ES is the fastest way to do smooth scaling on the iPhone. Our backends run reaaaally slow in 32-bit mode, even though I think I tried to optimise that in gfx_fb.
| James Paige wrote: | | I think I would like translucent buttons that fade out, but flicker back into view on button-down events. I know that sounds visually annoying, but I think it would be good from a usability perspective (but I'm not positive. We'll have to experiment when we get here) |
But I figure the arrow keys would be in continuous use most of the time, so suggest only showing the overlay if you press somewhere else.
Anyway, I guess such far forward planning isn't worth too much, it's nearly always forgotten (at least by me) by the time we get to the real thing.
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| The Mad Cacti wrote: |
| James Paige wrote: | | Yeah, having definable special buttons for games would be a good feature now, regardless of handheld ports. |
You've lost me. Are you talking about joystick buttons?
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Not Joystick buttons (not necessarily)
I guess what I am talking about is end-user key configuration.
The author should be able to define which keys are important, so the end user key configuration tool would know which keys to allow the player to customize.
| The Mad Cacti wrote: |
Hmm, I guess smoothing could work. Are you saying that it's unbearably slow on most emulators? I wonder whether there's a way to scale to 150% that doesn't cause any artefacts when sprites move about the screen.
And I wonder whether openGL ES is the fastest way to do smooth scaling on the iPhone. Our backends run reaaaally slow in 32-bit mode, even though I think I tried to optimise that in gfx_fb.
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Generally I think it is the emulators themselves that are too slow, and the smoothscaling pushes some of them over the edge (I'm thinking specifically of snes4iphone)
I have a hunch that the OHR will actually turn out to be a little less resource intensive than the typical emulator. We'll see. |
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