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Stop Dialogue Poll

 
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What did you think of the Stop Teaser's Dialogue/NPC Emotions?
Great work, clear and easy to understand. Keep it up.
15%
 15%  [ 2 ]
Above average, but certainly not professional quality.
38%
 38%  [ 5 ]
Around average. Nothing exceptional, but at least it didn't bore me to death.
23%
 23%  [ 3 ]
Not very good. I didn't know the characters at all by the end.
15%
 15%  [ 2 ]
Dude, it sucked. Your writing skills resemble that of a retarded 3-year-olds.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
MIND EXPLODE TOO MUCH TEXT IN 10 MINUTES
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 13

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Shadowiii
It's been real.




Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 2460

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:58 am    Post subject: Stop Dialogue Poll Reply with quote

Ok, so some of you probably have played that dinky Stop Teaser Release, and I was curious as to feedback.

What I want feedback on is the use of dialogue and NPC emotions to create convincing characters and environment. I know there isn't much yet, but considering this game is about 70% story, and since all story is told through character dialogue...I need to be sure I'm doing a decent job and not confusing you with poor ideas, etc.

Considering my goal is to make real, believeable characters (the best exampel I can think of currently is FF6), rather then dull characters (coughFF4cough, except Kain Raspberry!)...yeah.

So, yeah, take the poll. And reply if you have any specifics you'd like to mention.
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Iblis
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Joined: 26 May 2003
Posts: 1233
Location: Your brain

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to stop near the beginning because something came up, but one thing that stuck out in my mind is that she speaks English despite the fact that she has no knowledge. Unless there's something I missed later on, if she has no knowledge then she should have no language.

I'll go play it all the way through to give you some more feedback.
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TMC
On the Verge of Insanity




Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 3240
Location: Matakana

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, not no knowledge, no memories. A bit of a difference... or is there?

I voted the second from the top, but then I remembered that professional dialog wasn't very perfect. Good job. Just make sure that the characters don't waffle on about something that doesn't seem important, or that the player doesn't understand, or seems to be only done to force a plot point or something.
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Camdog




Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 606

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The dialogue certainly wasn't bad, but there was a couple of things I noticed. First off, the conversation with the boy and the shadow was awfully repetitive. This doesn't directly relate to the dialogue, but it was rather boring to sift through a rehash of how great it is to be stuck at the end of the time with no memories, and in a game that relies primarily on reading dialogue to entertain the player, this is important.

Second, I think you went a little overboard with the ellipses. Pauses are important to describe the flow of the conversation, but when you throw the three dots at the end of every other sentence, you give everything a very disjointed quality. It feels like a bad imitation of captain kirk spewing dialogue in chunks. In other words, all those pauses are a touch overdramatic; nobody really talks that way.

In terms of knowing the characters at the end, I don't think I really did. Infinity is lonely (I think you should play up on this more, if anything. it'll add to the atmosphere) and Stop is determined. That's about it. Having said that, I don't think this is neccessarily a bad thing. After all, how much character development can you cram into two short conversations, especially when most of those conversations are centered around finding out what the hell is going on? Basically, I don't think you need to worry too much about character development in this opening scene, otherwise you may end up sounding forced.

In general, I think this teaser is really cool. The story seems interesting, the atmosphere is great and well integrated into the game (she can't remember how to cast spells, save is 'remeber', quit is 'forget', etc.). Other than what I mentioned above, the dialogue is good. I'm really looking forward to playing the whole game. Good luck!
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Shadowiii
It's been real.




Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 2460

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I had to stop near the beginning because something came up, but one thing that stuck out in my mind is that she speaks English despite the fact that she has no knowledge. Unless there's something I missed later on, if she has no knowledge then she should have no language.

::Iblis


Indeed, though it was meant to be somewhat of a paradox. Like Adam and Eve...how did they speak to each other? If they had no knowledge of anything...how could they do anything? The point is that, when someone knows absolutly nothing, they really know everything (to a degree). Hence, she can talk. (Also, writing "UAJASKNOSDIAJBG" wouldn't really explain the introduction Big grin) But this is actually explained in more detail later...

Quote:
Just make sure that the characters don't waffle on about something that doesn't seem important, or that the player doesn't understand, or seems to be only done to force a plot point or something.

::The Mad Cacti


Well noted. I am trying to avoid that at all costs. Though I want to supply the player with a lot of information (the story gets extremely complex), without talking so much they just stop (har har har) reading. It is a fine line between saying not enough and saying too much. Though I do plan on cutting back (this "demo" was a bad example somewhat...considering it is the opening I have to explain quite a bit, which results in a lot of blather.) Take Breath of Fire 2, which didnt' have enough dialoge at all. Then take Legend of Dragoon, which had above average but it was 90% uesless.

On a side note, CN commented that it was a bunch of stuff people probably wouldn't remember later on (because all the things noted come up later). However, the point is that you've heard them, so when it comes up again, you are like "oh, yeah, I remember that. Way back then, someone said something about that...."

So, yeah, comments are read and taken in, really. Happy

Follow up (camdog posted the same time I did Raspberry! )

I won't bother quoting you, there is so much great feedback here. I'll comment paragraph by paragragh.

The repetative "know everything and nothing" converstaion - Ugh, yes. I tried to cut back but...later on...it is SO important in Stop^2 (when you finally get Infinity...Wink ) I probably will cut back on this, and have Infinity only say it once, while the Shadow is more elaborate.

Regarding the "..."s...yes, I was afraid of that. The point was that, since niether of them really know anything, they pause to think often. I probably should ahve just paused all text boxes (have a break with only npcs on screen sitting there thinking), but I didn't. Don't worry, you'll never see this again, for the rest of the series everyone has memories Raspberry!.

Infinity/Stop personallities - Exactly what I wanted. Though it isn't as detailed (yet), it is what I wanted you to feel about them. This is because later...ah, I'll shut up about later on. Raspberry! But, yes, I only wanted basics. Considering the player is trying to find out "what the hell's going on" (Raspberry!)...yeaaaaah.

Ok, I'll shut up now. Oookay...
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Iblis
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Joined: 26 May 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just played through it. Here are a few comments, some of which are actually not about dialogue at all:

1) I hate the font, but this isn't really a big issue.
2) When the "Shadow" talks, it is kinda hard to read cause the gray of his text is about the same as the gray of the floor.
3) How does Boy know all that stuff about the Shadow and the End of Time? If he arrived there, also with no knowledge, who told him? Or is this another case of the knowing nothing/knowing everything effect?
4) The moment Stop woke up, she would gather knowledge from her surroundings. After that moment she would no longer know nothing and therefore no longer know everything.
5) Why does Stop have a sword and why does Boy have a gun?
6) When Stop tries to go, there is a bit of romanticism with Boy's words, and this seems out of place.
7) Stop has the spell "Ultima." Do I even need to explain why this shouldn't be there?
8) I thought Boy looked too old to be called a boy, but it's a tiny sprite so that's understandable (His sprite looks great though).
9) Overall the dialogue is well-done. But it seems like we got a lot of story just force-fed to us in a short amount of time.
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Mr B




Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Posts: 382

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked the dialog quite a bit, actually. Of course, I know the basics of the story, so I understood what was going on a little bit (LITTLE bit) more than most folks.

I have to say that I didn't mind the elipsis, actually. I like using them a lot too, so Shadowiii's use of elipsis warmed my heart. Big grin

The only things that bugged me were 1) some missspellings and dropped letters, and 2) one of the sentences swaps between a singular and a plural third person pronoun. But that's done so often that I'm probably the only person who realized it... (man, I love elipsis)

And that's that. Overall, I thought that the dialog was quite good; much better than the typical OHR game (obviously), and, with those errors I saw fixed, as good as or better than a commercial game.
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Shadowiii
It's been real.




Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 2460

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I knew both of those mistakes before I released it. ONe I didn't fix becausei t would requrie retyping an entire text box. The other ("he" goes to "they" if I recall)I just didnt' fix yet.

Big grin
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