Castle Paradox

[Rpeanut]

Non-Linear or Story,

Does haveing a story make the game better, or make it worse???
(No story but having an objective... think Harvest Moon Style)

State your arguments, and I'll check back, in a month... or two.
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...eh?

[MultiColoredWizard]

Depends.
Non linear games are always my favorite. Super Metroid is my favorite game ever. Next is Castlevania Symphony of the Night, then Sonic and Knuckles+3, then Megaman 2.
(if you never played these games, then don't worry, they're just examples).
I hate stories in most games. I prefer the ones where stories are told through actions. Rocket Knight Adventures is a good example.
(Ironically, these games end up having the stories that most people talk about, because almost no questions are answered, and lots of controversial debates are made.)
Heh, every game I'm working on is non-linear, so I guess that would tell everyone something else.

[Pictoyaya]

If the game revolves around a story and not entirely a game, then you should maybe make a manga or a novel. A story isn't what made Castlevania for NES enjoyable ages ago, but it's challenge and level design.

I think non-linear stories are nicely told through actions, espcielly when a majority of the gameplay accomodates with the storyline. For example, using the Holy Glasses to save Richter in SOTN.

[Taernost]

I agree; non-linear games give you a level of freedom that can add whole new layers of fun to a video game, especially in replays. But don't think that just because a game is non-linear means that it can't have a good storyline. Just look at the Zelda games. True, they're not entirely free-form, but you honestly can do most of the tasks in the game in almost any order, and still keep the excellent storyline. Then there are the MegaMan games, which are almost entirely non-linear, and still they managed to put in a storyline (true, most of that story was only in later games, but my point remains). So don't think that just because a game is story-driven means it cannot be non-linear; that might be true most of the time, but it doesn't have to be the case.
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And now you will die, and you will scream, and I will laugh!
-De Loco
A drop of oil is worth a million gallons of blood!
-DeLoco; fully supported by George W. Bush

[Me]

I agree that nonlinear games are excellent, but a good story, and by that I mean more well-presented than good plot, can be a great thing to have. My dream, of course, is to integrate the two, creating a nonlinear story, where every action (and I mean EVERY action) changes the story in some way. Having a real-time system combined with this nonlinear linearity would make the ultimate story-based game.
Also, integrating gameplay with story is essential.
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UP DOWN UP DOWN LEFT LEFT RIGHT RIGHT A B START

[Iblis]

A non-linear game can be good, if it is made well. Just like with any kind of game. Being linear or nonlinear doesn't by definition make a game better or worse (at least, not to me), it depends on how well you make the game.

It also depends on what the game is like though. The atmosphere, gameplay aspects, and basic storyline can help determine whether it should be more or less linear. I mean, Harvest Moon would have sucked as a linear game. The gameplay wouldn't be compatible with it at all. Or, an urgent atmosphere might not lend itself well to a non-linear story. Like at the end of FF7, when Meteor is so close to Earth you can just wander around as much as you want and I was like "What the Hell?" It just didn't make any sense. So it just depends on what you want the game to be like, really.

[Shadowiii]

If you are referring to RPGs when you are talking about non-linear (which I assume you are, considering this is by majority an RPG making community), I'd like to comment that non-linear RPGs are difficult to get interested in. Why? Because RPGs are are one of the few games genras where story is almost as important as gameplay (contrary to platformers, such as Metroid or C:SOTN, both of which are awsome games). Because of this, it is very difficult to keep a player's interest through the hundreds of battles they'll be fighting if they don't even know if all this wandering is getting them anywhere.

An excellent example is Golden Sun vs Golden Sun: The Lost Age. Golden Sun was linear, and some-what story driven (the story was a bit...shallow, but it still was there). The story pointed you where to go. Lost Age, however, was horribly non-linear, and poorly designed at that. I had no idea where to go. Worst of all, you'd sometimes get 4/5 through a dungeon, and WHOOPS, did you not get that specific psyenergy? Too bad, all thats' been for a waste, now go and get it.

I haven't really played many other non-linear RPGs (or I just can't recall). The end of Chrono Trigger was pretty non-linear (that is, you could fight the final boss at any time) but it wasn't anything really special. Am I forgetting some non-linear RPGs? Someone refresh me...
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But enough talk, have at you!

[MultiColoredWizard]

Story isn't important as Gameplay in RPGs. That's just the genre that most story based games use.

[Iblis]

[Shadowiii]

SaGa Frontier! That's what I was thinking of! Geez, I feel so dumb.

As for non-story based rpgs...I haven't really found any that didn't have a story and were very interesting, though I'm sure there were probably one or two I can't remember (and someone will yell at me about ) that I enjoyed that didn't have a story.

BUT the MAJORTY of modern RPGs tend to have SOME story to them. That was my point. Though a non-linear story is certainly a possibility (Stop^2 is, by a majority, non-linear), it is difficult to execute while also haveing an engrossing story, which is actually one of the main reasons I play RPGs. If I didn't want a story, I'd go play Tetris Attack (which I do play, a lot ). The exception is, of course, a majority of MMORPGs, which have no story and are completely non-linear.

[Machu]

shameless plug

I was going to make Language of the Mind an RPG that's both non-linear and with interesting story. How? A dang lot of possible storylines! Heck, I don't think storyline is the right term anymore; more like story web. Imagine making a walk-through for that!

Hmm... just read back and noticed that Me had a similar idea. Stop reading my mind! (or maybe my thread in the story board?)
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[Me]

No, I came up with that a while ago on my own. However, it's nice to see that there are people who think like me . . . gives me more faith in future gaming devolopments.
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UP DOWN UP DOWN LEFT LEFT RIGHT RIGHT A B START

[Valiant Warrior]

Non-Linear or Story?

You're treating these as though they're mutually exclusive, which isn't the case. You can have a game that isn't linear and has a story. Zelda (as mentioned before), but especially the farther back in time you go. (First Zelda, has a story, save the princess, but has no guidance for direction at all). Also look at FF3 for SNES (aka FF6) that has a definate story, it has a path, but you still have soooooo much freedom to move around.

Story? Mario has a story. Mario is linear. Mario may not have an in-depth story, but it exists "Kill bowser, save Princess". It goes by level by level, you have control in the level, but ultimately you are follwoing a designed path. Same with Sonic games. Newer versions of these have become more free movement, but the side-scrolling games are what I was referring to.

Most RPGers enjoy a good story and a good adventure. Make Gameplay numero uno, and include a story. If you want, make an interactive story.

ME and Machu: I've had ideas like that before, I don't think that uncommon, but just are rarely employed.
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*VW has left the building*

[MultiColoredWizard]

Hahaha, NEVER call ff6j non-linear. By non-llinear we're talking about.. non-linear, ENTIRELY. Play Super Metroid, if you want an example.

[DukeofDellot]

You know... Megaman 2, Sonic and Knuckles+3, and Super Metriod are all linear. If your reffearing to story-based vs. gameplay-based maybe they lie in gameplay, but linear plainly means line like as in one story with one plot with one ending and one path to the ending.

I personally like both, but customizable 'non-linear' plots such those found as Kights of the Old Republic, and Mirrowwind. It really makes you feel like you're in the world that the gae takes place in, rather than games like Sonic (Even though he's cool, he goes against my current point) where you play the same exact levels in the same order every time you go through the game. Metriod also falls under the linear scheme, I think. (I've played the original and Super, and the sexual jokes about the game made me fade after that.)

Anyway, back on topic Like whats-his-name with the armydude avitar, I'm trying to make a story-based non-linear open ended game. At least I would think our ideas are basically the same.