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Gizmog1
Don't Lurk In The Bushes!




Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 2257
Location: Lurking In The Bushes!

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Orchard, I typically password my RPG Files (Unless I want to share the scripts, which happens a fair bit.) to keep anyone who just wants to read all the textboxes, or give himself a 9999 damage Shotgun, at least a little at bay. But, it isn't just security, a certain amount of it is keeping the player from looking into the Magician's Pockets. I like to see something in a game, and be able to say "Wow, I wonder how he did that.". Usually, when I go and look, it's something easy I never thought of, and I can never look at that feat with the same amount of interest again.
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Kenji Murasame
Shizuma




Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 103
Location: ON TO

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OHR passwords don't offer much protection.

Somebody can easily crack the password (I won't say how). So I'd say if you
should password because of newbie rippers, but don't worry about it not sharing because most people who know the engine can easily get into your file no matter your password.
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Setu_Firestorm
Music Composer




Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2566
Location: Holiday. FL

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, I don't care if people look into my games (it's not like I'm some kind of programming genious, right?)

The only thing to be afraid of is newbie rippers and even then, you shouldn't worry. Whenever someone rips from your game and it shows up in theirs, it isn't like they get a great deal of respect for it. As a matter of fact, they tend to get pooped on, but hey! You can't say it wasn't coming.
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Retrogamer
Trailblazer




Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 30
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 12:02 pm    Post subject: Bah... Reply with quote

Orchy, Gizmog and Shadowiii bring up some pretty significant points...

To be honest, I don't like it when others infiltrate my files and modify/spoil the game to their liking. Yeah, sure... they'll ruin the game for themself. It's their loss and I shouldn't care. But I do care... it's an invasion of my territory.

Games take a lot of time, energy, patience and dedication to make... a lot more effort than playing the damn thing (well, usually) Neutral . So what does that say when a gamer rewards himself with an "Ult1mi13!111 weppon" and breezes through all your hard work?

I frown on players who are rewarded for taking the easy way out... they've got to work for it, dammit! Raspberry!

...

...

Instead of passwords, I would've liked to see a tool that scrambles and customizes .RPG files so that they were/are no longer readable in custom (and that would require a specialized version of game.exe).

I know this idea is not feasible (considering the progress of the OHRRPGCE) but it would be a nice alternative, if implemented.

Whatever... I'm done complaining.

~Retro
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Shadowiii
It's been real.




Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 2460

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree...spoiling the game that an author took so long to balance is very frustrating, and many people think "oh boy! file unpassworded! SOOPER HERO YAY", whereas if it were passworded they'd at least have that reminder "uh...you do know this'll ruin the game...right?"

An easy way to do this so that people can't cheat (well, unobservent people anyway) is make the file Read-only. Since 90% of people don't expect the file to be Read-Only, when they try to save their CHEATZ it won't work and they'll just play the game. Though it is easier to "undo" then a password, it isn't nearly as obvious.

It woudl be neat to have a "Lock this Game File" OHR function that made it so a game file could be opened, looked at, but nothing could be altered (ie saving was disabled, or it just would never save the changes). Of course, that's waht Read-Only does, but having it actually implimented means it would be easier to be undone.
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Kenji Murasame
Shizuma




Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 103
Location: ON TO

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trick would be to making RPG's into true EXE files, where the rpg data can't be extracted.
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Rpeanut
Chop Chop




Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 160
Location: dunno

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If i had a game released, i wouldn't password it, yes indeed lots of things get ripped, but if I don't know about it I don't care, well unless that game shows up on CastleParadox in which the person will be blammed for ripping. I would also take it as a compliment that someone likes my graphics so much. But in my mentality... WIN !! WIN !! XD
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer




Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kenji Murasame wrote:
The trick would be to making RPG's into true EXE files, where the rpg data can't be extracted.


Data is data. it doesn't matter whether it is in an exe file or in a separate file.

scrambling the RPG file would not improve security either, because GAME.EXE would still have to unscramble eveything to play, so the data lumps in PLAYING.TMP could be taken and hacked. Security could be improved if each individual data lump was scrambled, but then GAME.EXE would have to unscrable everything in-memory on-the-fly, which would require a MASSIVE rewrite of every file format in the program, and a very signifigant loss in performance because of the extra overhead of unscrambling, and it would still only be semi-secure, because a talented programmer could reverse engineer the scrambling (unless I used cryptography-grade encyption, which would be a royal pain to implement in QuickBasic, and which would be even hella more slow than scrambling (and even then it would not be truely secure, because GAME.EXE would have to hide a decryption key somewhere within itself, and a really talented hacker could reverse engineer that too, though the idea of somebody putting that much effort into hacking an RPG file is almost as absurd as me putting that much effort into protecting an RPG file))

Although I dislike the password protection, it is not going to go away. What I would like to do however, is switch back to the *old* password storage format that was used before June 18 1999. If you look way down at the bottom of whatsnew.txt you will see the comment "Passwords are stored in a more secure way". This was not true. In that update I switched the password format from a simple-and-insecure format to an absurdly-complex-and-insecure format. It was a step backwards. If I can figure out how to switch back to the old format in the next update without seriously breaking backwards compatability with old RPG files, I will. It won't lose any security, but will make it nice and easy for programmers to make utils that support password protection.

The biggest value of passwords is not to protect your games, but to save game-theft kiddies from making complete fools out of themselves :)
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