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Posting in honor of one who cannot
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Squall
is fantastic




Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 758
Location: Nampa, Idaho

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This'll be my last reply to this thread for a while. It's becoming more and more obvious that we live in different worlds. Apparently, to you, discrimination is acceptable if it's over-the-top enough. Unfortunatly, other people don't realize this. You can't expect everybody to "get it", and if they don't, they're often made fun of for being too sensitive, or being a pussy or whatever.

I'm going to post a link to an editorial camdog posted on OHR Weekly that I don't think anybody has read. http://ohrweekly.castleparadox.com/cam.htm Orchard and I aren't the only people who notice this stuff. It truly bothers people, no matter how obviously a joke it is to you. If you don't have the empathy to understand how other people view your comments, then there's nothing else I can do for you. Just keep in mind that IM and the other admins are cracking down on this sort of stuff, so don't be surprised if you receive some backlash from your seemingly harmless jokes.
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The Wobbler




Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 2221

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Zombie Hunter Green
Keeps on picking the Rayon Launcher




Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who the hell references stereotypes about women drivers in a serious post about gender issues? Seriously, that's rediculous.
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Shadowiii
It's been real.




Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 2460

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly see no problem in a bit of "racist" fun. I know I call my close friends "niggers" at times, in a friendly way. Heck, we go as far as "faggots", "whack mormons", "jews", "mexis", "japs", etc. etc.

Edit: Hunter said in his one sentence what I ment to say throughout most of this, heh.

The thing that I think matters is that too much of it (or only doing it) is, as Squall put it, trolling. Doing it on IRC with close friends, and every once in a while on the boards (like the ANTI-SEMATISM thing, which was hilarous) is just fine and dandy. Making these remarks be the only thing you post is immature and irresponsible.

The only reason why I would consider MCW's 2 week ban relevent is that his recent posts have been nothing but negative, and he hasn't contributed anything recently, so he should get a minor warning. He also provoked Setu at an attempt to get banned, as well as provoking various members. We seem fine when Fyre gets banned for this kinda stuff, but we are making a big fuss over MCW. Be proud, MCW, you are loved here. Smokin'

Anyway, that's it. I don't think this issue is totally black and white, as some people seem to be seeing it, but there are definatly aspects of it that are pretty clear cut (see previous two paragraphs).
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Moogle1
Scourge of the Seas
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, this is retarded.

In the name of "civil rights," in the name of "equality," you are becoming offended at a signature that allegedly bashes a religion that is not yours. Shadow is not offended by the signature. I am not offended by the signature. You have no right to be.

Furthermore, if you're serious about this and not just looking for an excuse to deal out a few more permabans, you're going to have to do a lot of retroactive justice to people like JSH, PHC, et al. For that much trouble, just ask everyone who's ever released a serious game to leave, because it's about the same in effect.

You've picked a seriously bad time to go vigilante justice on us.
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Iblis
Ghost Cat




Joined: 26 May 2003
Posts: 1233
Location: Your brain

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an idea: if someone makes a joke about your race/religion/whatever, MAKE A JOKE BACK! Seriously, if we're trying to make a "civil" place for discussion, joking around is a hell of a lot more civil than banning someone. Just try not to take everything so damned personally.
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TMC
On the Verge of Insanity




Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 3240
Location: Matakana

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He should have been banned anyway because he never made anything? Don't ban him, he did make several games?

I think it's a bit far to consider whether a user has made any games that anyone likes before banning them (not that that was the case here, but because it was suggested), because thats akin to punishing those users who haven't made any games. These forums are for discussion of the engine and to help people with using it, but I think how users actually act here should be the thing considered when deciding whether to ban them. (Not that I think that spamming people over AIM was unrelated)
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RPGCreations
E Pluribus Unum




Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mad Cacti wrote:
He should have been banned anyway because he never made anything? Don't ban him, he did make several games?

I think it's a bit far to consider whether a user has made any games that anyone likes before banning them (not that that was the case here, but because it was suggested), because thats akin to punishing those users who haven't made any games. These forums are for discussion of the engine and to help people with using it, but I think how users actually act here should be the thing considered when deciding whether to ban them. (Not that I think that spamming people over AIM was unrelated)


Which is funny, because that was one of many silly reasons CN used to have me banned, and went on how about he wanted to ban other people if they dared post on this message board without having made a game. I could push games out every single day, but that doesn't make you better than someone else or make you more worthy to be not banned, it makes you look like a fool with nothing to lose except his self.
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Zombie Hunter Green
Keeps on picking the Rayon Launcher




Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RPGCreations wrote:

I could push back the date my games come out every single day


Fixed some grammer mistakes for you.[/b]
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ChocoSOLDIER
Ghost haunting the board




Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

US Constitution
First Amendment
'Nuff said.
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Moogle1
Scourge of the Seas
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The US Constitution has nothing to do with this website. Freedom of speech doesn't give you the right to post on a private message board.
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ChocoSOLDIER
Ghost haunting the board




Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*shot down*
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Fenrir-Lunaris
WUT




Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moogle1 wrote:
The US Constitution has nothing to do with this website. Freedom of speech doesn't give you the right to post on a private message board.


darn it, I said it first!

Fenrir-Lunaris wrote:
And anyone who complains about their first amendment rights or freedom of speech or whatnot being trampled on should note that only applies to the government, not to a private organization, or in this case a server. On a private server, the owners and admins decide what they'll tolerate.
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Moogle1
Scourge of the Seas
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but I said it more concisely. Happy
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Camdog




Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 606

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To clarify...

Quote:
"It seems like every time I log onto Castle Paradox I have to read through some ignorant sexist or racist comment. Girls can't drive, if you're disturbed by this picture you have a vagina, it's because he's a girl and that's what girls do, etc."

You know what would have been nice here? Examples. He might see this every time he logs onto CP, but I do not. If this is absolutely everywhere as he suggests, I'd like to see lots of links to back that up.


Yeah, no links, but I did discuss several examples. I don't see what the difference is. Anyway...

Quote:
In general message forums, people tend to know who they're posting with, and adapt to that by either ignoring them or understanding the jokes.


Well, my point was, though most people know each other here, anyone can come, browse, join, etc. So, really, any random person can click on a thread an be bombarded with "nigger, nigger nigger." No matter how "not serious" you are, there are people who are offended by that shit, so why not cut it out? It isn't funny anyway.

Quote:
Yeah, nothing happening now is chasing away valuable members of the community. (PS. Redmage was not valuable. JSH and Uncommon are.)


Well, I don't give two shits about redmage.

Quote:

That's because he's Dan the Man Entertainment, and he's insane. I'd post a link to his livejournal, but he has deleted it. The whole thing was basically, "CP IS WRONG I AM GOING TO GET THEM I AM HARDCORE." He wasn't taken seriously. If someone more valid had made such a post, there would have been more open dialog.


He may have been insane, but a bunch of people called him a nigger, and I maintain that that's fucked up.

Quote:

Not a stranger, no, but the people in IRC are not strangers to each other. I have no problem calling a close friend a nigger, nor do they have a problem calling me a cracker, a honkey, a blanco, a gringo, or any other cutesy term for my horrible racial handicap. We know it's not malicious.


Again, among friends. In private.

Quote:
"The same goes for the sexist comments, especially if you're male. I know it's impossible for you to imagine what it's like to grow up in a culture that considers you a second class citizen"

Isn't this remark in itself sexist? You shouldn't make sexist comments... ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE A MALE. It's impossible to understant what it's like to be a second class citizen? Not every white male is George Dubyah. This is an awful argument.


Give me a break. Are you seriously going to argue that sexism hurts men as much as it hurts women? My beef is when a bunch of guys fling sexist bullshit around freely thinking sexism is a thing of the past because, you know, it doesn't affect them.

Quote:

"Like it or not, you are making it hard for women and minorities to be a part of this community."

Maybe, or maybe the fact that "women and minorities" make up a significantly smaller precent of the videogaming populace than white teenage males would explain why there aren't as many here.


What does that have to do with anything? I said you were making it harder for them, not that there were lots of them. The fact that white guys are in the significant majority makes this "boy's club" stuff even worse.

(Quote switch, Hunter Green style!)

Quote:
Who the hell references stereotypes about women drivers in a serious post about gender issues? Seriously, that's rediculous.


That's exactly my point. The fact that gender insults are glossed over so casually is what makes them so dangerous. It's like when white people used to say it was ok to call black men "boy" because, you know, they didn't mean anything by it.

And, for the record, I'm not advocating censoring castle paradox at all. I think far too much banning/post deleting/etc happens. I was just trying to appeal to everyone's finer sensibilities.
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