Castle Paradox

Uncommon · Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:34 am Post subject:

Or a massive recuitment.

LeRoy_Leo · Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:13 pm Post subject:

The challenge set up by having a limitted amount of heros is for the gameplay more than story, but I agree that it is better to try and find a way to keep good gameplay as well as a practical story.

But this is what bothers me that I feel is impractical in RPGs:
When I am at a shop in any randomly selected town buying equipment, I would always check my pockets and ask... "You know what people? Why don't you give me this stuff? Don't you want to survive to sell another day?..."

So, for me, it's more about the practicallity of the adventure. Whether it's one or one hundred heros going off to save the world, the world should be able to afford to at least lend the hero's a good weapon or anything really useful. I realize that some of the best items in most games are actually not in stores. They are in dungeons and guarded by a challenging opponent, usually. That is only one small solution. My first question still remains. Why do the merchants have to be such money mincing ignoramouses?!

It's still funny when one thinks about it. One can just immagine how stupid a hero would feel if the battle against evil was lost all because the hero couldn't afford a crucial weapon or item... >.>;
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Junair Wiare · Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:28 pm Post subject:

Fenrir-Lunaris · **WUT** Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 1747

The problem of only one group of heroes saving the world is negated when the possibility exits that there are other groups doing the same thing. If there were dozens, or perhaps hundreds of parties running around, clearing dungeons of monsters, slaying dragons, and fighting the legions of the demonic emperor whatshisface, then there's no need to speculate on whether or not you're the only ones doing it.

Seriously, what are the chances that a group of only 3 or 4 people are going to run out one day and go kill the dragon up in the mountain cave? Perhaps it had been attempted before? That old fart rambling outside the village blacksmith's would probably have said to them "when I was younger, I went to the cave to fight that very same dragon with my best friends - we didn't all make it back in one piece but we learned a valuable secret about it. It's underbelly is weak to arrows, yadda yadda yadda". Perhaps there are other adventurers who went out ahead of the party, or perhaps after them? What if the party uncovers their remains, and finds magical items or clues that will help THEM in their quest? A likely scenario, provided the world has more than 100 people living in it.

As for the shopkeepers selling goods to people out to save the world, I offer up this dialogue:

Kotaru: "I need a new sword to defeat the evil sorceror. Preferably an icebrand."

Shopkeeper: "That'll be 11000 Zenny"

Kotaru: "WHAT THE F*?! I'm trying to freaking save the world, and you're charging me for it?"

Shopkeeper: "Well, there's expenses and all involved in it. Firstly, we don't carry them in stock, so I would have to have the blacksmith forge a suitable blade for the base. Then I would have to hire a wizard to cast the needed incantations to enchant it - though he would probably not have the needed components on hand, and would likely have to hire another group of adventurers to get them for him. Then there's the quality of the weapon... you want +1 or +5?"

Kotaru: "+5, duhh."

Shopkeeper: "Cool. That'd probably ratchet the price up another couple thousand, based on the rarity and quality of the materials and work needed to produce it. Supply and demand. Not to mention that you know, the local baronry doesn't look kindly on having the populace well armed and ready for a revolt. There's officials to bribe, guards to pay off, and an extra charge to keep the thieves guild from trying to mug you as soon as you step out of this shop. Mostly it's a question of paying off the dozens of people and hundreds of hours that actually go into making quality goods."

Kotaru: "Okay, okay, I'll buy it"

Shopkeeper: "That, and I don't sell weapons to doggies."

Kotaru: "YGYDUFEFFDJHGFDFDFDSFDFDFfftpf Pissed off!

>:{{{{"

Sephyroth · Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:19 pm Post subject:

Junair Wiare · Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:16 pm Post subject:

... Which makes the characters like, totally callous.

Also, this band of several hundred soliders ambles about the town? Seems like the monsters would FLOCK to them. And are the monsters legions thereof?
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Junair Wiare · Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:18 pm Post subject:

... Which makes the characters like, totally callous.

Also, this band of several hundred soliders ambles about the town? Seems like the monsters would FLOCK to them. And are the monsters legions thereof?
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Joe Man · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:32 am Post subject:

Well, the game should naturally revole around one person or a small group of people, of course, but you must admit, it is VERY hard do make a game work otherwise. Besides, games are often better when the good guys actually die occasionally.

But I do agree with you. People should put a little sense in their games.
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Shadowiii · **It's been real.** Joined: 14 Feb 2003 Posts: 2460

On the topic, the only thing I dont' like is where a "normal" kid ends up being some huge beastly guy (ie FF7-10). If they start out with some supernatural powers (think Tina from FF6, ~~Stop from Stop~~), then it makes more sense.

That is, I hate seeing a normal guy become superhuman simply because the game progressed. If there is some breakthrough where they gain this power it makes sense, or if they started with it, but some normal dude getting super with no explination (and thus can take out the God-like Sephiroth clone) is stupid.
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Camdog · Joined: 08 Aug 2003 Posts: 606

I think the real problem with this stems from the ridiculous nature of the standard RPG story. I mean, how do you really reconcile the idea of 3 or 4 nobodies challenging an all-powerful evil force into a realistic narrative? More relevant still, how do you do it game after game after game? This could be overlooked back in the day, when there wasn't a whole lot of room for dialogue and the story was overshadowed by exploration and gameplay, but now that we can make the actual story more integral to the game, we frankly need better stories.

When you base a game on the "A huge evil has entered the world and you are the only one who can stop it!" idea, a whole bunch of plot holes are bound to develop.

Junair Wiare · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:22 pm Post subject:

As I said earlier, I'm doing it this way in my game:

1) You aren't the only one; there are other, similar bands doing the same thing. Maybe I'll let you play these occasionally.
2) The evil isn't exactly, well, evil. You just don't like their cause. This way, it makes sense not everyone's on your side, and you're not the only one who can save it. Although said evil is a large empire.

Not saying this is perfect; but I haven't spotted yet the flaws.
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Jjkaybomb · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:26 pm Post subject:

Y'know how few games actually let the game end with the bad guy winning? The heros gave it their all, but to no avail? The bad guy killed them, the world reigns in chaos, the end? No sequel, no more game play, end?

This idea is copyrighted! MINE! I'll make a game off it!
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Moogle1 · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:20 pm Post subject:

Yeah, that's because the player likes being able to win. (Though that constitutes two of Live a Live's legitimate endings.)
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Sephyroth · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:26 pm Post subject:

Shadowiii: There's a good reason so many RPGs star underage children as the main heroes of their stories, and it has something to do with the target audience.

Junair: The idea's not exactly original. Most modern RPGs nowadays try to avoid a concrete "Good vs. Evil" conflict, but rather try to stick to the view that "Nothing is really evil; it's all just based on your opinion." I'll leave it to you to decide if you agree with this.

Jjkay: Impossible, you'd be sued by Square, because they've already made a game based off that idea.

It's called "Live a Live".

EDIT: Curse my slow typing.
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Moogle1 · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:27 pm Post subject:

Mwahaha! My ninja typing and extensive knowledge of arcane SNES RPGs wins me the victory once again!
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