Castle Paradox

[Me]

No it isn't. However, since the OHR is the only thing I use, due to lack of programming knowlege (I dislike most of the other engines I've tried), I like finding ways to exploit it.
_________________
UP DOWN UP DOWN LEFT LEFT RIGHT RIGHT A B START

[LeRoy_Leo]

[Ssalamanderr]

[Nathan Karr]

I think that "Holy" shouln't be an element at all. It's far too powerful. "Holy" means it comes from God, and therefore any Christian heroes wouldn't use it, considering it blasphemy.
Heroes of any other relligeon are just making big light balls and yelling "HOLY." There is no middle ground.

On the musical elements: Elvis is rock. Heavy metal is nice in my opinion, but isn't rock. Rap can be good, as shone by some Catholic rappers my sister told me about. No musical genre can be called "Holy," not even Gospel. If you want to make anything dark, do Country. I can't beleive anyone likes that stuff.

Yes, Fire is WAY overpowered in ANY FF game. They are one of the worst offenders in the "Holy element" abuse, as well.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, the ICE spells were inherenly more powerful than FIRE or LIT in FF1. FFTA also gave out WAY too many items that enhanced ice.

Water and Ice should be the same element. For that matter, I think that Wind and Lightning should be the same, too. Or else Lightning sould be a fusion of Fire and Wind.

I also think that "Dark" and "Evil" aren't necessarily the same thing. But as far as fiction goes, I'll go for that.

My first game uses the standard "Fire<Ice<Lightning<Fire" triangle, as will my next game. My next one will be more leiniant, as well.
_________________

[Gizmog1]

It doesn't mean necessarily your god. It could be holy powers granted by any number of deities, including, but not limited to, Jupiter, Odin, Zeus, Cleopatra, Thurmadonna, Shinigami, Shiva, or Quetzacoatl. and what's more, games are works of fiction. We shouldn't be concerned with attempts at "Holy Power" in a work of fiction. Limits you too much. I'd rather use the fun old gods, like Loki, who like batman have flaws, instead of the damned Christian Gods, who are basically the boring ass Superman of Gods. My favorite god from a character point of view is Venus. I mean, a woman of blinding beauty. Can't beat that. An element system would be intriguing if it used the traits of various gods, and thus instead of having just an arbitrary assignment of "Fire" "ICE" "ThUnDaH", you'd have say, "Loki" Who gives your character tricky and deceitful traits, "Thor" who increases strength and lightning spells "Venus" who makes your character beautiful, and what not.

[Mr B]

"Damned Christian Gods." I...er...eh? *shakes heads*

It seems that having different elements associated with different uses of spells (as opposed to different types of damage) would produce some interesting implementation challenges.

What I am saying is that, if damage spells are "Thor" based, then all a player would have to do is boost the heroes' "Freya" power, reducing/eliminating damage.

Basically, if all damage is only one element, what is the difference between having a single element and not having it?

I guess it would require a battle system that looks beyond merely damaging the heck out of one's enemies. Such a system might involve the relationships between the characters, the characters' moral standing, and somesuch. Of course, this seems to drift suspiciously far from the original conception of "elements." Perhaps it would be better to think of it as something else, just to avoid messing with the terminology.

[Gizmog1]

I was thinking more in the sense of Chrono Trigger, where people were Ice Oriented, or Fire oriented, and yes, a God's Favor of the character would extend beyond mere damage, but into tactics deployed, and how the character behaved towards other characters. When I think of the Pantheon of Gods mankind's made up over the years, it's amazing that the best of them are the ones who've been mostly forgotten. I'd much rather worship a god of love, and a god of war, and gods of fire. I mean, Vulcan was a great god, and it's a shame most people think of Vulcan as Mr. Spock, or else it'd be great in a game, much like Thanatos and Anubis are used. I mean, dialogue would be terrific using such a system of divine favor "Oh, Venus smiled on her. Her face shines like a thousand stars, and her bosom is the color of moonglow"

EDIT: And no, it wouldn't be so much damaged based SPELLS that are Thor Based, but a person who Thor smiles upon would be able to beat the hell out of things better than someone who wasn't smiled upon by a similliar god of strength. And, should this person suddenly quit using the hammer, or do something to displease Thor, then he might find himself trying to please another deity.

[Fernurion]

I've thought for quite a while on elements, trying to create a unique system for my games. One idea was to use different schools of magic, in this case Necromacy, Invocation, Conjuration, Divination, illusion, Abjuration and Enchantment. (I know, I ripped the names off D&D). Each school is responsible for a set of effects, for example:

Necromacy: Life and healing spells, pure damage spells.
Invocation: Earth, fire, water, ect. Offencive spells only
Conjuration: Physical damage spells, can alter ATT and DEF Stats
Divination: 'Holy' spells, can alter Speed and WIL stats
Illusion: Magic damage spells, can alter Dodge stat
Abjuration: defencive spells, some healing. can modify DEF, WIL, Dodge and Speed
Enchantmet: can alter HIT and MP~ stats, some physical damage.

This is only a rough outline. Each scholl is good agains two or three different enemy bitsets, such as divination us good against undead and possesed monsters. Each school has its downfall, and is vulnerable to certain damage types. Spells from one school may be learned by anoter to allow greater flexability with characters.

These arn't really elements, as the Eath, fire, holy thing is still there. it's more a different way of grouping them.

[Thayer]

RO had it where there were different levels of elements that would do different damages to each other, but I don't think that's too drastically different. Didn't Pokemon have this as well? I noticed some elements would do less damage, some would do spectacular damage, and others wouldn't do any at all. Are these just standard?

[Capt. Obvious]

Ya think?

[Dr. Baconman]

Interesting ideas, there. Although I wouldn't advocate the "Musik" system all that much, I do agree that the Elemental systems need to be a bit more complex.
A combo I usually enjoy pulling off requires about 5 Elements.
The first 4 sort of work around each other like Rock-Paper-Scissors, and then there'll be just one that rules over them all.
Personal preferences, that's all.
=====
What I do NOT suggest is using the early Final Fantasies for examples. Things were very confusing, considering that there were only 3 real Elements [Holy is exempt] and there were enemies focusing on 4 Elementals. That basically just ruined the balance.

[Bob the Hamster]

Sun
Moon
War
Wisdom
Nature
Love
Time

Anybody guess where I got those? The sequence is important.

[Gizmog1]

I personally think that elements should apply to more than just magic. It could apply to fighting styles. A knight for instance would probably have the drop on an undisciplined horseman, but his heavy armor, lack of mobility, and general belief in honor might leave him exposed to the attack of a ninja.

If you boil it down, all an element system really means is "Something is better than something else" (Or arguably, something is DIFFERENT than something else), and I think that could apply to things like weapons. Swords being faster and more accurate than axes, lances being very accurate and powerful but slow to wield, etc.

Bacon, do you have any concept of time? I mean, this is one of the better threads on the forum to revive, but it had been sleeping pretty goodly, and you didn't really add a whole lot to the conversation. The next time you revive a thread, could you make sure you've got a little bit more to add?

James: I don't know. The back of a Beatles Album?

[Fenrir-Lunaris]

[Bob the Hamster]