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Onlyoneinall
Bug finder
Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 746
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 Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:57 am Post subject: Smooth nightly |
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Could someone explain the smooth versions, and whether or not it is how the future graphics will be, or one of the possible choices? I think it is interesting, but not an option that we would want to go through with indefinitely.
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FyreWulff
Still Jaded
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 406
Location: The Internet
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| From what I read and understand on the mailinglist, the smoothing modes will be a command-line option, and never a default. Especially if they don't add an algorithm that won't slaughter character eyes and such. |
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually, I am hoping to have something that you can not only turn on/off via the command-line, but at run-time too. Perhaps an extra menu option in game, and in custom a key you can press to toggle between normal and smooth modes in the graphics editor (so you can draw in normal mode, but preview in smooth mode) |
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FyreWulff
Still Jaded
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 406
Location: The Internet
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Interesting note: I was preparing a reply to this topic where I was going to compare shots of SoJ in normal mode and SoJ in smooth mode. Unfortunately you must do it using PrintScreen because F12 still captures 320x200 unsmoothed shots. I imagine it was intentional?
regular
smoothed
regular
smoothed
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smoothed |
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AdrianX
..yeah.
Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Posts: 286
Location: Batangas City,Philippines
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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..coolness!
..is there a way that we non - ohr developers try this feature out too? how? |
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The Wobbler
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 2221
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Note from Castle Paradox Administration: | | This content has been removed by the user. Contact the original author and link them to this post if you wish to view the original content. Only the author can remove the tags hiding this content. |
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| AdrianX wrote: | ..coolness!
..is there a way that we non - ohr developers try this feature out too? how? |
download http://hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/nightly/ohrrpgce-wip-smooth2x-native.zip and try it out.
| PHC wrote: | | Please be sure to include an option in Custom that will allow someone to completely turn off this option for anyone playing his game. |
Why?
When it becomes part of the official build, I think this would best be an optional feature that players only turn on if they want it. |
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Komera
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 711
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I don't see enough difference in Wulffy's screenshort (or Rinku's on LJ) to care either way.
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Calehay
...yeah.
Class B Minstrel
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 549
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Some people would probably say that it makes the art not "true" pixel art.
But I would say that it does what a TV does; it's smoothing the entire screen, and I think that it could be a cool feature, though I've never really felt that smoothing never really works as well as it does on a TV (or at least an SDTV. HDTVs don't do this, to my knowledge.)
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FyreWulff
Still Jaded
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 406
Location: The Internet
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Personally, I think a good graphics filter will only make well done pixelgraphics look better or just smoother - I don't think it ruins the "pixelyness" of it at all.
I do think some HDTVs apply a smoothing filter when they upscale images from SDTV (480lines) to 720p (720lines) or 1080i(1080lines), but not to this level.
It'll be interesting to see if/when they can implement some more robust schemes like 2xsai or possibly hq2x
interestingly, when games start using bigger palettes, the smoothing effect will become less apparent. |
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NeoTA
Idiomatic Nomenclature
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | interestingly, when games start using bigger palettes, the smoothing effect will become less apparent. |
Is that a prediction or a diagnostic? Usually graphics filters choke on antialiasing or dither-patterns, which would respectively increase and decrease with the use of larger palettes. Although I don't seriously expect a single sprite to actually use anywhere close to 256 colors, if that's what you're talking about.
EDIT:
Re: the general subject of smoothing filters:
I think OHR could do a lot better. Since the graphics are not modifyable during runtime, you could take the time to preprocess them (say, on a as-demanded basis -- you preprocess them as they're asked for, and then use that processed version afterwards). For instance, there is a superior 3x filter in http://bub-n-bros.sf.net which may be suitable for scaling tiles or other small graphics; larger graphics would work well with my vectorscaling process, though that'd have to be at run-time rather than on-demand. (with the possible caveat that the vectorscaler works better if it knows how bright each color region is, IE. it works better if it knows what the palette is). |
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Newbie_Power
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Some people would probably say that it makes the art not "true" pixel art. |
By my philosophy, the pixel art is still there... But the look and dignity of a finished pixel product can be ruined completely by a filter. |
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The Wobbler
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 2221
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Note from Castle Paradox Administration: | | This content has been removed by the user. Contact the original author and link them to this post if you wish to view the original content. Only the author can remove the tags hiding this content. |
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FyreWulff
Still Jaded
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 406
Location: The Internet
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Since the engine is open-source now, people would be able to force it back on anyways.
I think it would be a good idea, though, if there was a bitset to set the default smoothing mode (none, x2, x3, etc) |
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msw188
Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 1041
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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To me this seems most noticable with the fonts, and there it looks pretty bad. I am also a fan of having the bitset in custom to control the default smoothing process for a given game. But I don't think that we really need to be able to prevent a player from activating it if he or she wants to. An author's recommendation ought to be enough; after that, if the player wants to ruin the look, that's his or her choice I should say, as long as that choice does not affect gameplay. Just my opinion.
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