Castle Paradox

[J.A.R.S.]

Of all the RPG cliches, the one that disgusts me the most is the party limitation idea... Aside from perhaps Chrono where they actually bother giving a (bad) reason why you can't be more than 3, and games such as Mystic Quest where you never truly have pending heroes (because they're all mysteriously occupied a second before a new hero wishes to join you), I fail to see the underlyig principles of this cliche.
YES: fightig with 7 heroes, in most cases, would be BADDDDD (though I'm sure some genius could make it work in one way or another).
The idea isn't that one shouldn't make a game where party size is limited, but that there should be an effort. Either like Lufia, where there are just 4 heroes of light (so obviously, only 4 slots) or any other good reason... not just "because its an ff franchise!!!" FFVI makes no sense out of this whatsoever except when you have to devide your party into 3 factions.
Feel free to comment or bring up the rpg cliche YOU hate the most...

[Komera]

The Grand List of Console Role Playing Game Clichés

My LJ entries where I talk about the clichés as applied to W:P1:
Part One
Part Two
Part Three

My least favorite is "Apathy Principal", followed by "Logan's Run Rule".
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LJ.Art

SD - Ten creatures remaining.

[J.A.R.S.]

the list I had came from another source haha... its an old one too oh well...
And strangely, I think that the apathy cliche is somewhat necessary for most rpg to pull it off (assuming you want an epic feel). If the heroes are not so unique throughout the world, I think the rpg falls into a new category... one that feels somewhat more like Diablo in a way that it is more anonymous... I know for a fact (see other threads) that some people favor these rpgs' structure and all, but I personally think that to build a strong plotline, it is important to put the focus on the heroes that are the most important and that their importance is foreshadowed by the abscence of other rising stars. Just like most books where you follow a hero, which is nearly unrivaled.
Notable exception to this: Decker in Lufia II. He DOES join your party, but he does do a shitload without you too including *spoiler* "coming back" to life without you having to do anything with it, and saving the city from monsters */spoiler*
If what you meant exclude the latter point, then I'm much obliged to agree, otherwise, well obviously, I disagree


EDIT:
I think Logan's rule is something we feel more as we grow older... I am guessing you're about my age too, so there is no disputing this one at all Btw, nice job with checking on all cliches and annotating your game by their standards. I did that once, but never bothered writing it down on a website...

[Moogle1]

[J.A.R.S.]

no idea really, I did have a feeling she was kinda older, but I really don't know. How old is she? 87?? :P

[Onlyoneinall]

I think Komera is in her mid 30's.
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http://www.castleparadox.com/gamelist-display.php?game=750 Bloodlust Demo 1.00

[Newbie_Power]

[J.A.R.S.]

sorry about the confusion, I meant new as in different... bad french translation choice of word on this one :S I am fully aware of the D&D world presceance on snes-oriented japanese rpgs. I am personally not a fan, nor am I too much a fan of too anime driven rpgs either... VERY strangely, I like Chrono but who doesn't?

And quoting billy madison, in no way, argues against me. You're making us dumber by not even clarifying your position, which I consider not only dumb and a complete lack of interest/objectivism and argumentation, but also, disrespectful of my and other people's intellect. It contributes nothing to bring incoherent, misplaced AND un-constructive comments. I wish I could slap you for such pointless comments too...

[Moogle1]

[Newbie_Power]

I posted that Billy Madison video because it shows how I felt about what I quoted. Creating parties is a huge gameplay feature of RPGs, and J.A.R.S just managed to turn it into another cliche that he thinks is stupid.

J.A.R.S managed to bash 90% of existing RPGs because they didn't follow his vision. That's why I was disrespectful towards that rant against four person parties. The only decent thing he managed to say was that stories poorly explain it, but they shouldn't even have to explain it anyway.

[J.A.R.S.]

give examples. I didn't say all rpgs.
The one I accuse mainly is FFVI here because, all your heroes wai tin an airship while you do the work... As I stated, there are exceptions where other members are busy and the limitation is not felt as a limitation. In these cases, I'm not pissed (Mystic quest, although not a top notch rpg, dodges this question quite well I must say, especially for a game limiting your party to two, which was reasonably interesting too). In FFIV, and FFV, there are no issues as far as I'm concerned. As a matter of fact, this issue is in a few games only, those where you have a pool of waiting heroes... Chrono "does" explain it with a reason, although lame, that is sufficient. You can't travel more than 3 or the timestream is broken to the point of lesser resistance aka the ends of time. This doesn't explain why you couldn't go 3 by 3 but rejoin in the other world, but that is far fetched and unecessary. So yes, the main rpg faulty in this case if FFVI, yet it does, at times, tries to fix it by using groups.
Be honest. Have you never wondered why you can't just invade a level with all your heroes? This feels so odd.
This is not a vision, its common sense applied to a non-realist game. I'm not saying it should be realist, but avoiding cases that get the player upset enough to add it to the cliche list (which is by no means a reference I must admit considering that some cliches are not particulalrly upsetting if not from the fact most rpgs have them).
I'd rather have a lame excuse why the heroes must leave for a while that would make me laugh than knowing that he's just there, looking at the ground waiting for me to pick him up because we can't quite enter the floating continent with more than 4 people.......... Ok, alright, keep a pilot for the ship, hell just pretend they defend it, but in most cases, they don't even bother saying that.
Another notable exception: Bahamut Lagoon... Where you get to always have all your heroes (wouldn't work in a normal battle system I believe since 12 heroes would become a mess to coordinate... unless Moogle1 comes up with a brilliant view on this )
THAT is why I believe your Billy Madison comment was misplaced and unwelcomed. I don't believe I'd say that of any of your comments, however much I'd disagree. There is logic in everything. A human being is perhaps even unable to be 100% illogical in an idea, even by trying.

[Newbie_Power]

[Onlyoneinall]

[Moogle1]

[J.A.R.S.]

I totally screwed on the chrono example , I had forgotten about the gate key. Thats makes chrono a full exception then
and the idea of an rpg with 12 simultaneous characters is beyond the point indeed (unless a brilliant idea fixes it).
I'm not surprised Newbie opposed me... he and I seem to spend all of our days over here arguing on two different ends of everything... as though everything i ever say is wrong... so I'll discard his "no" for now... although I am now fully aware that some people apparently didnt bother thinking about this... but ya, there are things I disregard too... But thanks to onlyoneinall, I don't feel so alone anymore
I wouldn't want to literally invade a castle with 12 heroes if I wasn'T aware that they're all waiting outside in a landed airship.............. That is my point.