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Castle Paradox
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Moogle1 Scourge of the Seas Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner


Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 3377 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:07 am Post subject: |
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2 hours per minute for a piece of average complexity. Longer if you want something fully orchestrated. _________________
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FyreWulff Still Jaded

Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 406 Location: The Internet
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Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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jabbercat wrote: | Ironically thats about what you'd expect to pay a professional composer here for 60mins of music. That's roughly what I'd charge for a BBC hour long small ensemble commission. Alas, no hour long commissions from the BBC yet. |
The original agreement was for 200$, since he also wanted some money to record one of the songs with vocals.
I think he forgot I was 1)poor and 2) not a multi-million dollar company
There was also the problem that the tracks did not convert well to BAM anyway. |
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Rya.Reisender Snippy

Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Posts: 821
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Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Kinda greedy those composers. I mean let's say 8 hours work per track. Then 20 tracks are a month full time job work. For me that's worth around $5000 at max.
But seriously who expects to be paid when working on a free amateur game? -.- _________________ Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) |
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jabbercat Composer

Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Posts: 823 Location: Oxford
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Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Rya.Reisender wrote: | How long does it take to compose one track? o.o |
That depends entirely on the composer, and what the subject is.
I'd like to draw attention to this document, which is provided by the Contemporary Music Centre (Ireland). It features commission prices for a professional composer, the CMC is also the company that will be representing me as of July next year.
But charging anything remotely like that to people who either haven't been given funds by various art councils, or aren't huge companies (like Fyre on both counts) is ridiculous. _________________ Moogle no longer owes prizes. |
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Camdog
Joined: 08 Aug 2003 Posts: 606
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: |
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Rya.Reisander wrote: | Kinda greedy those composers. I mean let's say 8 hours work per track. Then 20 tracks are a month full time job work. For me that's worth around $5000 at max. |
The problem is no composer will ever be commissioned to do 20 tracks a month every month. The reason why commissioned stuff tends to be pricey is because the work just isn't consistent. Any composer would starve to death on your suggested salary. Even at the prices quoted by jabbercat, most composers (aside from the rock stars like John Williams) make squat. |
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Rya.Reisender Snippy

Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Posts: 821
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Other people work 8 hours 5 days a week, why should composers not? They are just lazy bums then. _________________ Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) |
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Moogle1 Scourge of the Seas Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner


Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 3377 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Because they don't have that much work lined up for them. There are a lot of professions like that. Actors also work on and off.
This is the most judgmental and awful thing you've said. _________________
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Bob the Hamster OHRRPGCE Developer

Joined: 22 Feb 2003 Posts: 2526 Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Yay! Fun math puzzle time!
* Lets assume that there are approximately 6,700,000,000 people on earth (according to wikipedia)
* Lets assume that every person sleeps exactly 8 hours a day, but for the other 16 hours they want to be listening to music the *whole* time
* Lets assume that nobody ever wants to hear the same song twice in their lifetime
* Lets use Moogle1's estimate of 2 hours of composing time to produce 1 minute of music
* Lets use Rya's estimate of 8 hours 5 days a week for the hard-working-composer's workweek.
And there is the puzzle: How many hard-working-composers does it take to ensure that everyone on earth can listen to music 16 hours a day without ever hearing a repeat?
* We will also assume that distribution of music is automatic and magical. Once the composer has composed a song, it becomes magically available directly to the ears of anybody on earth who hasn't heard it yet. |
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Rya.Reisender Snippy

Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Posts: 821
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: |
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So they are lazy bums so that more composers can do the composer job? xD _________________ Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) |
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Camdog
Joined: 08 Aug 2003 Posts: 606
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Wait, do you mean each person would never hear a repeat of a song they already heard, or no two people would ever hear the first song? If it's the former, we'd need a mere 30. If it's the latter, it's impossible by an order of magnitude (6,700,000,000 * 30, or 201,000,000,000 composers!)
(Yes, I really took time out of my work day to figure that out) |
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Bob the Hamster OHRRPGCE Developer

Joined: 22 Feb 2003 Posts: 2526 Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Camdog wrote: | Wait, do you mean each person would never hear a repeat of a song they already heard... |
Yes.
Camdog wrote: | ...or no two people would ever hear the first song?... |
no.
Camdog wrote: | If it's the former, we'd need a mere 30. If it's the latter, it's impossible by an order of magnitude (6,700,000,000 * 30, or 201,000,000,000 composers!)
(Yes, I really took time out of my work day to figure that out) |
by my calculation, it only takes 15 composers to provide music faster than it can be listened to under the constraints of this puzzle.
The population of the earth was a red herring :) music is an infinite resource, so it wouldn't matter if there were a gabloozillion people on earth. |
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Moogle1 Scourge of the Seas Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner


Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 3377 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: |
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It's also worth pointing out that it's not even feasible to come up with good songs every day of the week. Let's suppose you're a career game designer -- are you going to come up with an awesome new game idea every day? Every week? Even every month? (Hint: No) _________________
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Rya.Reisender Snippy

Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Posts: 821
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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Well I could probably come up with a good game idea every week if I include all the cool game ideas I dream of. _________________ Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) |
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jabbercat Composer

Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Posts: 823 Location: Oxford
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Rya.Reisender wrote: | Other people work 8 hours 5 days a week, why should composers not? They are just lazy bums then. |
You wouldn't criticize a doctor for being on a £50,000 something paycheck per annum, considering they'd put in 10 years overall to become fully qualified, a GOOD composer will have put in at least 10 years education, studying harmony, structure, history, instrumental techniques, and they'd be fortunate to earn £20,000 per annum, in an industry that treads on them, and you consider them lazy?
I'm just blown away at your ignorance. Genuinely. _________________ Moogle no longer owes prizes. |
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The Drizzle Who is the Drizzle?

Joined: 12 Nov 2003 Posts: 432
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:08 am Post subject: |
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A little anecdote about picasso (quoted here from http://drawn.ca/2006/08/25/how-to-charge-a-client/)
Quote: | Legend has it that Pablo Picasso was sketching in the park when a bold woman approached him.
“It’s you — Picasso, the great artist! Oh, you must sketch my portrait! I insist.â€
So Picasso agreed to sketch her. After studying her for a moment, he used a single pencil stroke to create her portrait. He handed the women his work of art.
“It’s perfect!†she gushed. “You managed to capture my essence with one stroke, in one moment. Thank you! How much do I owe you?â€
“Five thousand dollars,†the artist replied.
“B-b-but, what?†the woman sputtered. “How could you want so much money for this picture? It only took you a second to draw it!â€
To which Picasso responded, “Madame, it took me my entire life.†|
Something to think about when considering the price of art. _________________ My name is...
The shake-zula, the mic rulah, the old schoola, you wanna trip? I'll bring it to yah... |
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