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Moogle1 Scourge of the Seas Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner


Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 3377 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Rya.Reisender wrote: | In the end you need to realize that your skill will always improve. Even if you think now "Man I'm a genius" it could be that in some years you think "Man, how stupid I was back then". |
I... I take it you're not referring to yourself here.  _________________
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Leonhart

Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 383 Location: Philippines
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:26 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | In the end you need to realize that your skill will always improve. Even if you think now "Man I'm a genius" it could be that in some years you think "Man, how stupid I was back then". |
Oh, geez. I actually agree.
Things I learned from This Side of the World:
- the smaller the graphics, the harder
- Be cool when accepting criticism... especially towards your newbie game.
- Yes, oh, yes. You're newbie game WILL suck.
- In OHR's case, never flip walkabouts.
- Playtest before releasing.
- If you are making a newbie game, greatly avoiding cliches will make it suck more...
That's all I can think of for now. _________________ The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on.
- Robert Bloch |
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8bit Clutcher of toes.

Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 110 Location: In the thoughts and dreams of all the world's children.
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Leonhart"] Quote: |
- If you are making a newbie game, greatly avoiding cliches will make it suck more...
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Don't you mean suck LESS? Generally, I find cliches to be some of the most offensive things you can put in a game. If the game sucks in all other aspects, but it is not your typical hero-saves-girl/world-because-he-is-the-chosen-one, then at least it has SOMETHING going for it. If you mean that the author should realize that their game is going to suck anyways, so they might as well not waste an original idea on it - well... maybe you are right. In general, I NEVER think originality is a bad thing. _________________ Peace and love. Peace and love. No more autographs. Peace and love. |
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Leonhart

Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 383 Location: Philippines
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Well, that sentence could have two meanings:
1. Someone who has less experience in making a game could definitely be making something we consider a NEWBIE game. Thus, he/she has no experience yet on how he/she is going to present this "new" idea. Trying to avoid cliches (at all cost) could possibly result in the game being too confusing, since he/she do not have any experience yet on successfully presenting the story in a, well, less-confusing manner.
2.
Quote: | If you mean that the author should realize that their game is going to suck anyways, so they might as well not waste an original idea on it - well... maybe you are right. |
Close enough.  _________________ The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on.
- Robert Bloch |
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Rya.Reisender Snippy

Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Posts: 821
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: |
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I don't know why, but this thread makes me a question I always wanted to ask but never found the opportunity to do so:
Quote: | What is harder, making something bad into something good or making something good into something even better? |
Also:
Quote: | I... I take it you're not referring to yourself here. Sad... |
I was referring to all humans which kind of includes me too. ^^' _________________ Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) |
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The Wobbler

Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 2221
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: |
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8bit Clutcher of toes.

Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 110 Location: In the thoughts and dreams of all the world's children.
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Surlaw wrote: | Most first time games are bad because the author doesn't continue working on them/refining them or releases them too early. The fact that it's someone's first game doesn't make it inherently bad. |
In my case, BECAUSE it is my first game, I am going through "Marooned" with a fine-toothed comb. I want the OHR community's first impression of me to be a good one. I want the name "8bit" to be associated with good games. I guess it is a matter of pride. Why some people would release a half-assed game is beyond me. _________________ Peace and love. Peace and love. No more autographs. Peace and love. |
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Newbie_Power

Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 1762
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Hmm... I'm guessing one's best bet is that if they can't avoid a cliche, that they will need to just embrace it and try not to put much focus on the cliche aspect, keeping the more creative aspects of the game as the main attraction. _________________
TheGiz> Am I the only one who likes to imagine that Elijah Wood's character in Back to the Future 2, the kid at the Wild Gunman machine in the Cafe 80's, is some future descendant of the AVGN? |
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TwinHamster ♫ Furious souls, burn eternally! ♫

Joined: 07 Mar 2004 Posts: 1352
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: |
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8bit wrote: | Surlaw wrote: | Most first time games are bad because the author doesn't continue working on them/refining them or releases them too early. The fact that it's someone's first game doesn't make it inherently bad. |
In my case, BECAUSE it is my first game, I am going through "Marooned" with a fine-toothed comb. I want the OHR community's first impression of me to be a good one. I want the name "8bit" to be associated with good games. I guess it is a matter of pride. Why some people would release a half-assed game is beyond me. |
Also the fault of pride.
Most people won't even realize that what they're making is half-assed before someone else convinces them.
Some people also want fame as soon as possible, so they'll hastily release their game. |
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8bit Clutcher of toes.

Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 110 Location: In the thoughts and dreams of all the world's children.
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:56 am Post subject: |
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I don't know. I think there is a difference between pride and vanity. Pride forces the author to test and re-test their games. Vanity allows the author to say, "I made it so it must be GREAT!" Negative fame is a good possibility, though. Personally, I would rather have my name associated with a game like "SoJ" as opposed to, say, "Magnus." But that's just me. In the words of the immortal Sly and all the rest of his Family Stone: "Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks." _________________ Peace and love. Peace and love. No more autographs. Peace and love. |
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Rya.Reisender Snippy

Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Posts: 821
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:04 am Post subject: |
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It sounds a bit harsh but... if you can only make games by copying other games you shouldn't be making games to begin with. Just go write a book or make beautiful pictures or whatever you are really good in.
The reason why the first game always sucks is that if you begin with making games you know a lot less about game design than you will know after your first release. There are just some things you can't learn from books, you can only learn them when you do them wrong and others discuss about it with you. The game creator will have many ideas that just don't work for the gameplay but he doesn't realize this until someone tells him. Now of course he could improve the game by changing the complete system, but that's basically like make a new game anyways and still won't be as good as the next game the game creator will make. If your second game is much better than your first one (which almost always will be the case), then your first game sucked, because you just didn't use your full potential back then. The only exception are philosophical games, where only the message is really important. It could be that your first game contains a really important message you always wanted to tell the player and your second game just has a made-up message to go along with your first game which hasn't been thought about for years unlike your first message. But then again we might argue that a game still sucks even when the message is awesome.
But as I said before, the skill will always increase until you have reached a certain maximum and all the games you created before that suck automatically. Like when I tell Orchard that I'm playing Motherland and he replies with "Ewwwww". :-) _________________ Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) |
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Newbie_Power

Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 1762
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | It sounds a bit harsh but... if you can only make games by copying other games you shouldn't be making games to begin with. Just go write a book or make beautiful pictures or whatever you are really good in. | What is this in response to?
Quote: | The reason why the first game always sucks is that if you begin with making games you know a lot less about game design than you will know after your first release. There are just some things you can't learn from books, you can only learn them when you do them wrong and others discuss about it with you. The game creator will have many ideas that just don't work for the gameplay but he doesn't realize this until someone tells him. Now of course he could improve the game by changing the complete system, but that's basically like make a new game anyways and still won't be as good as the next game the game creator will make. If your second game is much better than your first one (which almost always will be the case), then your first game sucked, because you just didn't use your full potential back then. | What you said here is obvious to most people. What everyone else is talking about are more specific mistakes that they learned from, not that "they simply got better", which is always easy to tell.
Quote: | I don't know. I think there is a difference between pride and vanity. Pride forces the author to test and re-test their games. Vanity allows the author to say, "I made it so it must be GREAT!" | This.
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Anyway, from my newbie game I learned not to use over-saturated colors. This involved me completely changing the OHR Palette to look much better to the eyes. I learned many things from Pixelation, in fact.
I learned that Untitled's story is cringe worthy, and that most of you would agree if I ever work on it more.
I learned that stats are very significant at lower numbers, especially HP. A single level alters a lot more than I thought it would (which I like).
I learned that having two party members with few abilities really sucks.
I'll try to think of more things. _________________
TheGiz> Am I the only one who likes to imagine that Elijah Wood's character in Back to the Future 2, the kid at the Wild Gunman machine in the Cafe 80's, is some future descendant of the AVGN? |
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8bit Clutcher of toes.

Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 110 Location: In the thoughts and dreams of all the world's children.
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:20 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Newbie_Power"] Quote: |
Quote: | I don't know. I think there is a difference between pride and vanity. Pride forces the author to test and re-test their games. Vanity allows the author to say, "I made it so it must be GREAT!" | This.
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What does that response mean? "This"? What?
EDIT: Ohhhhhhhhh, I think I got it. _________________ Peace and love. Peace and love. No more autographs. Peace and love. |
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Newbie_Power

Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 1762
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | What does that response mean? "This"? What? | It's been kind of the hip, internet forum way of saying "I agree with this." _________________
TheGiz> Am I the only one who likes to imagine that Elijah Wood's character in Back to the Future 2, the kid at the Wild Gunman machine in the Cafe 80's, is some future descendant of the AVGN? |
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8bit Clutcher of toes.

Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 110 Location: In the thoughts and dreams of all the world's children.
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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See... that's why I didn't get it. I'm just not hip. _________________ Peace and love. Peace and love. No more autographs. Peace and love. |
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