Castle Paradox

[Rya.Reisender]

I know Swimmy really well, he has a huge collection of all my good internet quotes. You should know that Selectbutton is a 'spawn' of my main internet community. If you guys already have trouble argueing with me you won't stand to stay an hour there.

I can somewhat understand what he means when he says OHRRPGCE games are bad by default. He doesn't know the newest features yet, probably, though. But I can elaborate it for you. If you want I can also post what you write in this thread or make a new one asking for more elaborating.

Basically it's:
- if you use an RPG maker your game will suck because you are limited by the RPG maker at some point, this means you'll automatically copy features of another game and copying features makes a game automatically suck (in that community anyways), pure programming will always be better
- no battle scripting possible, the battle system will always be the same in the OHRRPGCE just with small variation, even more copying... yes you can make your own battle system with plotscripting, but what's the point, it's easier to make it with pure programming honestly
- the menues will always be the same (back then)
- the music has low quality (BAM back then)
- the graphics have low quality (yes there are some OHRRPGCE people that are good with graphics and can do good graphics with the OHRRPGCE, but with any other RPG maker or pure programming they could make BETTER graphics and this is what counts, see next point)
- if you don't / can't use your full potential, the game already sucks by default

Don't worry too much about this too much, though. They are all like me just more extreme. Plus when I told them I use the OHRRPGCE they were like "Omg, why do you use the worse engine ever made?" but when I released Gerania at least one of them liked it except for the fact that the battle backgrounds is stolen from PSII kinda and the towns have wells which is copied from DQ or so he says.

I once tried to convince them to play Orchards games because at least some of his games are quite unique, but I never really got them to give feedback on it (some ended up buying Immortal Defense, though).
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Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

[The Drizzle]

[Rya.Reisender]

This is true. I never said that pure programming games are good by default.

It's more like:
RPG Maker -> Bad by default
Pure Programming -> Depends on the skills of the programmer / game designer

It's true that there are even a few RPG Maker games that are really good, but they are so rare that elitists are hard to convince of this. It's like with MMORPGs most of them suck so much (read: copy so much) that it's hard to convince them to play one, even if that one is really special.
_________________
Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

[Moogle1]

This is some of the worst stuff you've said. HIGHLIGHTS REEL PLZ

[TwinHamster]

[Rya.Reisender]

I do alot of pure programming and yeah, I was only explaining why Swimmy said that. For SB sequels usually suck by default too except when they are from Konami or Sega. And some FF parts are really hated there, but other are liked because they add a complete new system. For example FFX is popular because of the grid leveling system and FFXII is probably the most popular there, because of the complete new gaming system and the fact that no other game as such a good customizable computer AI.
Dunno what to reply to your two "what?".

I stand to my point that you can always do better games by pure programming because it just allows the maximum possible customizability. RPG Makers always make your life easier at the cost of customizability.
_________________
Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

[Newbie_Power]

[Rya.Reisender]

Told you. :p

Just see them as people that only like completely original games that could be considered a complete new genre. ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, Passage, Gravitation, Yume Nikki and Katamari Damacy are some examples of games the community likes.
_________________
Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

[The Drizzle]

[Rya.Reisender]

I think there are many games that are completely original. Especially the first ones of each genre. Tell me how is Passage not completely original?
_________________
Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

[JSH357]

Passage is fairly original, but it's also a pointless piece of crap posing as "art."

It uses the same graphical style as lots of 2D RPGs, and the aging idea was seen in The Sims 2. There you go, two very possible influences.

[Rya.Reisender]

The game isn't pointless. It holds the power of completely changing your view on the world and fall into deep depressions. And you can also play it for highscore.

The graphical style is completely unique, I haven't seen any RPG yet that uses this type of graphical display yet. The aging is also pretty different from The Sims, isn't it?
_________________
Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

[JSH357]

[Rya.Reisender]

I doubt the one who made Passage did even think about the The Sims.

I indeed basically never read a book, but I'm talking about copying gameplay concepts here and not taking a concept from a book and turning it into playable (this is actually a good thing). Oh and the main concept of the game isn't aging, it's exploring your own true nature.

The graphical style is really unique or do you know any other game that uses this future / past 'blurring'? If you are saying it just copies another game because it has sprites and tiles, is there even a different graphic type possibility? The only other option I can see is without graphics.
_________________
Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

[Newbie_Power]

ITT: Rya is butthurt that we're giving original games an un-biased look.

Passage was more of a tech demo and a look at life, more successfully than it was a game. With that said, collecting items for points while getting to the end fast enough resembled a goal one might find in an Atari 2600 game.

Games are best at being different from other games.

Even when you look at games that don't appear to be original on the surface or are clearly a defined genre, they may still have unique properties that make it different from other games of that Genre, and *gasp* worth playing.
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TheGiz> Am I the only one who likes to imagine that Elijah Wood's character in Back to the Future 2, the kid at the Wild Gunman machine in the Cafe 80's, is some future descendant of the AVGN?