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Ranged Attacks D->
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Rya.Reisender
Snippy




Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 821

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Newbie_Power
True, if you set this for ALL attacks (except spread), then the order doesn't matter so much anymore. But this also lies within the responsibility of the developer since the player can't change it himself (btw, something like the 'prefer target' setting would be cool as in-game option too, in fact many setting would be nice as in-game setting like window colours).

This also brings up the idea that ranged attack could prefer target "farthest" and melee attacks could prefer "closest". Of course attacking the default target is ALWAYS quicker (especially if you keep enter/space pressed) than selecting another target and then attack. So if you make a Sword and a Bow that are 100% identical except for that single option it's already a noticable change. If you are in an area where the strong attackers are always at the back it's better to equip a Bow because you wanna kill them first. If the strong attackers are front it's better to equip a Sword. If there are more than one hero and all can decide between Melee/Range weapons it adds even more strategy. :-)

Quote:
I hope to add some properties to formation slots which are independent of the enemy in that slot, so that you will be able to do things like making a front row which gets attack bonuses and defense nerfs, or a back row that can only be targeted by certain attacks.

Wouldn't it be easier (and thus better) if you just gave attack a 'range'. You could give attack an X range and an Y range. If I want to make an attack that only attack front row / back row, I'd just set the X range to a small value like 10 pixels and the Y range to 200. Then add an option that the target can't be changed (so that it'll always use 'prefer target' after comfirming). With that many of those ideas could be implemented. Attacks with a 'radius' are another idea.
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Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
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Newbie_Power




Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This also brings up the idea that ranged attack could prefer target "farthest" and melee attacks could prefer "closest". Of course attacking the default target is ALWAYS quicker (especially if you keep enter/space pressed) than selecting another target and then attack. So if you make a Sword and a Bow that are 100% identical except for that single option it's already a noticable change. If you are in an area where the strong attackers are always at the back it's better to equip a Bow because you wanna kill them first. If the strong attackers are front it's better to equip a Sword. If there are more than one hero and all can decide between Melee/Range weapons it adds even more strategy. :-)
Beat you to the punch on this idea, because that is what my game does (even posted the method in this thread), except I do not have any weapons that target only farthest yet, but I do have weapons that only target closest.

I also turn on "Automatically Choose Target" for attacks that are intended to only attack certain things.

The only difference is that weaker melee weapons can target any enemy while stronger melee weapons only target closest. Weaker melee weapons are as ranged as it gets right now because animations aren't intended for bows. I will probably add slings as the farthest only weapon later on.

Magic, of course, targets any enemy you choose, or is spread.
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Rya.Reisender
Snippy




Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant what you quoted a bit differently. I wasn't talking about ONLY being able to target certain things I just meant that the default target is farthest / closest but you can still attack both if you use the arrow keys to select the target. You lose a bit time by doing this, though.
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Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
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Newbie_Power




Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh...

Then... I don't really have much to say.
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Rya.Reisender
Snippy




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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, that's one thing I love FUABMX's difficulty for. Some boss battles can only be won if you keep Enter/Space pressed, if you press it repeatly you can't win them, perfect difficulty. ^^
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Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
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Newbie_Power




Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
By the way, that's one thing I love FUABMX's difficulty for. Some boss battles can only be won if you keep Enter/Space pressed, if you press it repeatly you can't win them, perfect difficulty. ^^
...
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Uncommon
His legend will never die




Joined: 10 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what's he's saying is some of the battles are very fast, and you'll lose if you hesitate even a second. While that could be interesting and intense to see maybe once, it would be annoying if all battles were like that.
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Newbie_Power




Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's not saying that, he's saying that having to hold down space bar as opposed to tapping it is difficulty balance.

Intense battles require quick decision making. Holding down the space bar requires none.
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Uncommon
His legend will never die




Joined: 10 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have to keep in mind we're talking about a guy who doesn't use English as his first language. I'm not trying to defend him, I'm just saying don't expect precision in what he's saying. I've seen huge flamewars erupt just out of expecting precision out of Rya's wording.

I'm also not saying what he's proposed is a great, good or even clever idea, just that to see a battle that's timed that well just once could be at least half-interesting. More than once would be stupid.
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Newbie_Power




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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not opposed to that. Rya managed to come off as liking that kind of intense battle for the wrong reason. I'm not here to argue, it just sounded incredibly dumb.

I know he'll start brainstorming different ways of adding intensity to battle, so let's just let him.
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Rya.Reisender
Snippy




Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In FUABMX's battles a lot of skill is required. Not only brain-skill but also fast keyboard reaction. I'm not saying that you keep the key pressed over the whole battle. You also need to use the correct skills at the correct times, but because of limited MP (and the fact that sometimes the normal attack is more effective) you also need to use normal attacks often.

You keep need to check whose turn will be next, what the boss is going to do and decide really quick whether to hold the Space button or select a skill. If you just take tap around you'll lose. This can be noticed mostly in the battle where Podo fights himself. There's only a single path of 'keeping pressed' and selecting skills to win this battle. One short hesitation and you've already lost.

It's just awesome no matter what you say. x-x
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Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
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satyrisci
~guo~




Joined: 28 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So playing DDR instead of an rpg is "awesome"?
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Rya.Reisender
Snippy




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

satyrisci wrote:
So playing DDR instead of an rpg is "awesome"?

This is true.
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Snippy:
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"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer




Joined: 22 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out Tendrils It is a DDR RPG. As you do the dance moves (with your arrow keys) your characters attack.

Unfortunately the author gave up on it before it was really finished.
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Rya.Reisender
Snippy




Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting idea.
Mother 3 does something similar, though. It's not really DDR but the battles are all about rhythm as well.
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Snippy:
"curt or sharp, esp. in a condescending way" (Oxford American Dictionary)
"fault-finding, snappish, sharp" (Concise Oxford Dictionary, UK)
1. short-tempered, snappish, 2. unduly brief or curt (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
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