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Meatballsub
Divine Bovine
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 437
Location: Northwest Georgia
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BlastedEarth
Joined: 05 Oct 2009
Posts: 243
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 Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:41 am Post subject: |
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I was really pleased with my last pixel drawing, i even posted it in the forums, only to find out it had a lot of 'pillow shading', oh well now i know thanks i guess.
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So many ideas, so little focus. Monk spirit please lend me your power!
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J_Taylor
The Self-Proclaimed King of Ketchup
Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 188
Location: Western NY
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:54 am Post subject: |
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I'm playing with the idea of creating a series of video ohr art instructables. But that's only cuz I have not the slightest as to how to make a website.
oh yeah. And a lot of these links aren't working...
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Baconlabs
PURPLE IS MANLY
Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 335
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| BlastedEarth wrote: | | I was really pleased with my last pixel drawing, i even posted it in the forums, only to find out it had a lot of 'pillow shading', oh well now i know thanks i guess. |
Pillow shading is not evil. It's more of a stylistic choice, I say.
You might not even need much shading depending on what you're doing.
An area of Yume Nikki (called "White Desert" by fans) was drawn entirely with pure black and white, and managed to be one of the most memorable places in the game.
Mr. Game & Watch can vouch for artistic merit in monochrome, too.
This might just be completely tangential to what you're all talking about.
Oh well. Picture.
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Newbie_Power
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Pillow shading is not evil. It's more of a stylistic choice, I say. |
If pillow shading is a stylistic choice, then screw style and anyone that stands by it.
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Baconlabs
PURPLE IS MANLY
Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 335
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Pillow shading is not evil. It's more of a stylistic choice, I say. |
Actually I might have jumped the gun there. It becomes a big problem if this instance of shading is blatantly out-of-place or flat-out wrong.
When I was thinking of pillow-shading as a stylistic choice, I was thinking of it in terms of simplistic shading. That might not be the case. If a game's style of shading is so terribly erroneous that it actually takes the player out of the game to ponder "why the hell does this look so strange?" and that's not what you're shooting for, either improve the shading or ditch it all together and make simpler, cartoony graphics.
Not that there's anything wrong with simplicity.
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Newbie_Power
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:31 am Post subject: |
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Stop lumping pillow shading in with simplicity and style. Style is not a synonym for lack of ability.
Pillow shading is drawing without a light source, if you're doing this, you are a terrible artist, and claiming that it's a style is just an excuse not to improve.
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TheGiz> Am I the only one who likes to imagine that Elijah Wood's character in Back to the Future 2, the kid at the Wild Gunman machine in the Cafe 80's, is some future descendant of the AVGN? |
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Baconlabs
PURPLE IS MANLY
Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 335
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:25 am Post subject: |
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My mistake, Newbie's right on this one. Simple shading is cool, pillow shading is not.
I believe this image will explain everything.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:34 am Post subject: |
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I don't know why some pixel artists get so infuriated about pillow shading.
In the example that Baconlabs just posted, the pillow shaded one actually looks pretty cool, and the boss that BlastedEarth posted in the other thread is awesome.
I would suggest that:
(A) Pillow shaded drawings can look good in spite of pillow shading
(B) Pillow shaded drawings, even if they look cool, will always look even cooler if drawn with a proper light source (that is to say, if they cease to be pillow shaded) |
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Newbie_Power
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:46 am Post subject: |
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The yellow devil boss pic isn't technically pillow shading because it actually has a light source, but MM7 sprites do have banding issues, which is a separate problem.
| Quote: | | boss that BlastedEarth posted in the other thread is awesome. |
That boss had an awesome design, but the pixel art could have used work (I didn't mention it because I didn't want to be a lamer.)
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TheGiz> Am I the only one who likes to imagine that Elijah Wood's character in Back to the Future 2, the kid at the Wild Gunman machine in the Cafe 80's, is some future descendant of the AVGN? |
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TwinHamster
♫ Furious souls, burn eternally! ♫
Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Posts: 1352
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, a better explanation can be found back here.
BlastedEarth's Boss pic is fantastic in line-art and color (I'm still looking for something to compete with it), but the light's a little inconsistent at times and some parts have the pattern of shading lighter towards the center.
I don't think that just having "Pillow Shading" makes your art bad.
It's just that if you take the time to add in a viable light source, it can be made much better.
Last edited by TwinHamster on Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Newbie_Power
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It's just that if you take the time to add in a viable light source, it can be made much better. |
Then it's no longer pillow shading, just using a bunch of colors in a gradient.
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TheGiz> Am I the only one who likes to imagine that Elijah Wood's character in Back to the Future 2, the kid at the Wild Gunman machine in the Cafe 80's, is some future descendant of the AVGN? |
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TwinHamster
♫ Furious souls, burn eternally! ♫
Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Posts: 1352
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Newbie_Power wrote: | | Quote: | | It's just that if you take the time to add in a viable light source, it can be made much better. |
Then it's no longer pillow shading, just using a bunch of colors in a gradient. |
Yeah, it's better if you can stop pillow shading.
But I don't think it hampers the initial purpose of a sprite telling its viewer what it is supposed to be. |
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Newbie_Power
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But I don't think it hampers the initial purpose of sprites to tell the viewer what it is supposed to be. |
I explained that pillow shading is shading without a light source. It's when people just take the center of an object, not just the overall object, but every arm, limb, etc and shades towards the edges.
This DOES ruin the purpose of telling the person what the sprite is supposed to be. It ruins the ability to perceive depth. The fact that people are defending this is absurd.
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TheGiz> Am I the only one who likes to imagine that Elijah Wood's character in Back to the Future 2, the kid at the Wild Gunman machine in the Cafe 80's, is some future descendant of the AVGN? |
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Baconlabs
PURPLE IS MANLY
Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 335
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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This is all a bit confusing.
But enlightening at the same time, I'm amazed there's definite, solid opinions on both sides here. I can't decide what to think:
Is pillow shading really bad? Or is it just sorta-kinda bad?
You're all taking notes on BlastedEarth's sprite that I'm completely overlooking. And James... well, weren't there a handful of pillow-shaded sprites and backgrounds in Wandering Hamster? And we all love how that game looks, despite it not being the apex of graphic wowness.
But the fact remains that pillow-shaded objects have a much greater potential when shaded realistically, and the practice of pillow-shading is technically flawed.
There's a lesson to be learned and I have no idea what it is.
Pay no attention to I.M. Meen there, he doesn't believe in shading.
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