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Who here has seen Farscape in the late 90s?
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JSH357

Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 1705

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:25 am Post subject:

msw188 wrote:

I just want to voice a couple agreements and hopefully clarify something. First of all, I agree that the best way to get immediate feedback is to talk to people directly, even if I don't go online often enough to do so myself.

(However, I AM interested in seeing this feed of Hachi playing my game live. I didn't know anything about this. Do I need a chat program to watch this? Does anyone know if it's still available?)

I also agree that posting in lots of different places is much better than simply posting on the OHR forums. And for that matter, it does seem a bit silly to leave entirely. Posting as many places as possible is certainly a better idea than posting in one place, giving up on it, and then going and posting in another.

I want to try to give my two cents on the Rya post. I think Rya makes mistakes and pisses people like Surlaw off by using generalizing words like "always" and "none". However, it is a fact that people in this community use the OHR engine themselves. This is not a bad thing! They'll KNOW you can't support higher resolutions, for example. They'll KNOW that you can't control stereo effects in real time very easily, etc.

SOME people will SOMETIMES allow this knowledge to cloud their judgement of the game. But not everyone. I've tried my best not to do so in the reviews I have written (although if I had a suggestion for improvement that uses my knowledge of the engine, why should I not give it?). In fact, in my time reading the Hamsterspeak mag, I'm fairly certain that the majority of reviews (and a good portion of the features) focus on what makes or breaks the enjoyability of a game, not what engine techniques are used/misused. However, here's the rub.

'Pure gamers', upon finding something they dislike about a game, will mention it and stop there. 'Game developers', upon finding the same thing, will not only complain about the lack of fun, but might also criticize the implementation that led to the lack of fun. Again, this is not a bad thing unless you make it out to be! Take it as a suggestion on improvement. You'll notice that no one complains about implementation of something they enjoyed. People in this community find something they don't enjoy about the game first, THEN think they see how it was developed and complain about that. I think if you look at your review with that mindset, you'll find that it's not too terribly biased at all, although you may still find it frustratingly incomplete.

Finally, I do want to let you know that I fully plan on playing your game and writing a reveiw on it, but this might take me months. A lot of the community here, myself included, are at least approaching their late 20s if not past them, and have plenty of other time commitments. I only managed one review in the first month of judging, and I'm not sure how much my pace will manage to pick up. But your game WILL get another review in this community.

Hachi's livestreams are here, but they don't all have audio. You really have to be watching it.
http://www.livestream.com/hachiiiiii

chronoboy
Into the past with a splash

Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 162
Location: Canada

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Who here has seen Farscape in the late 90s?

JSH357 wrote:

I actually just tested the game again, and it does work in the latest nightly. It crashed at the harp every single time I tried to play it before.

That is good to hear. The source code for the game is released, if your curious about the harp and how it may have crashed the game. I took a very odd approach mind you.

JSH357 wrote:

- The title is based on a forum user name that's based off a video game character. This is usually not a good sign. If you had called this game even something as stupid as "The Secret Portal" I might have been more interested to begin with.

The title was purposely based off my forum username/online name. There is no character in the game by the same name, it basically means it's an Adventure Game by Chronoboy. The game was difficult to name, due to how the game plays out.

JSH357 wrote:

- The credits, while amusing, kind of clash with the semi-serious tone of the beginning of the game.

I had mixed reviews on the intro credits, most of them were positive when I released my initial demos, so I didn't change it. I attempted to give the intro a similar mood to the failed game "Secret of Evermore". I guess I see why that game is not talked about anymore...

JSH357 wrote:

- The cloud and meteor slices look extremely unnatural, and lack good sound effects to help them

They're actually not slices. I attempted to only use stable features available in the game engine to see what I could do. Slices would have made it look much better, I agree.

JSH357 wrote:

- In fact, there's a general lack of sound that needs to be addressed should you update the game

I recently got a new microphone again, and this is what I am hoping to complete.

JSH357 wrote:

- The walkabouts in the intro have odd proportions and/or lazy animations (like the cars), and after being transported to the second world all of the graphics appear to be from the Ultima games. I know you're probably not a graphical wizard (neither am I) but these things DO reflect poorly on the game

I am not too pleased with the cars either, it took me a few tries to get the cars to move as they currently do. I also wanted to add a sirens sound effect and perhaps use the red/blue flashing function as well. The graphics are purposely different in the two different worlds. I wanted to make it more clearer for the player when a cutscene plays from his home world. Also, the "slanted" graphics also play a part later in the game, as you might have noticed, the main protagonist actually noticed the other world is slanted.

JSH357 wrote:

Personally I think this was the second-weakest entry in the contest, for most of the above reasons, so I'm not surprised by its placing. The issues I mentioned are pretty much objective problems with the game; if this had been a commercial release, I probably would have returned it.

Did you return Windows Vista? Big grin

I know I did, and for the exact same reasons. The product was not a finished product when it was shipped. But, for a HotOHR contest entry, why would you expect a bug-free game? There were only a few games which were complete releases, of which for those I would expect a more bug-free commercial quality game.

JSH357 wrote:

I would be happy to provide any other feedback.

Thank you, I will look forward to any additional feedback. Also to note, the intro is much more bugger than the actual game. Some may consider the ultima graphics a bug, but I was a tad limited on time. I do have future plans to develop my own graphics in a similar style. The portal graphics are the only ones I drew myself. Take a look at how awful the Ultima 6 moongates looked, yuk! I preferred the more 3D look from Ultima 7, and that is where I based my re-design from.
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Moogle1
Scourge of the Seas
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner

Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Seattle, WA

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Who here has seen Farscape in the late 90s?

chronoboy wrote:

Pretty much anything would've been an improvement.

Quote:

They're actually not slices. I attempted to only use stable features available in the game engine to see what I could do. Slices would have made it look much better, I agree.

Slices are a stable feature. I'm not sure why you'd think otherwise.

Quote:

But, for a HotOHR contest entry, why would you expect a bug-free game?

Because you had fifteen days to do nothing but fix bugs? Which other contest entry had notable bugs after the bugfix deadline? Everyone was working under the same conditions. This is a terrible excuse.
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msw188

Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 1041

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:58 am Post subject:

To JSH: haha, I laughed when I saw you quoted my whole wall of text just to tell me about Hachi's feed. But I wanted to make sure to thank you for the link. To Chronoboy: I must admit it's pretty funny that a thread like this has the title "Who here has seen Farscape in the late 90s?" _________________ My first completed OHR game, Tales of the New World: http://castleparadox.com/gamelist-display.php?game=161 This website link is for my funk/rock band, Euphonic Brew: www.euphonicbrew.com

chronoboy
Into the past with a splash

Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 162
Location: Canada

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Who here has seen Farscape in the late 90s?

Moogle1 wrote:

chronoboy wrote:

But, for a HotOHR contest entry, why would you expect a bug-free game?

Well, I did have Christmas plans with Family in the country and did not bring my laptop along for the ride. I know, I could of worked on bug fixes instead of spending quality time with my family... I was really debating on it.

Perhaps the next contest should not having an ending date near a majority celebrated holiday. Big grin

Sometimes I wish I just celebrated Ukrainian Christmas instead(the perogies, yummy!)

msw188 wrote:

I must admit it's pretty funny that a thread like this has the title "Who here has seen Farscape in the late 90s?"

It really shows I am just terrible at thinking up titles for anything. I'm surprised that it even got this many replies due to the title.
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Bob the Hamster
OHRRPGCE Developer

Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 2526
Location: Hamster Republic (Southern California Enclave)

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject:

Pepsi Ranger
Reality TV Host

Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 493
Location: South Florida

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:42 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Perhaps the next contest should not having an ending date near a majority celebrated holiday.

There is no such thing as a good end date. Countless contests have proved this in the past. That's why it's six months long. You gotta be able to find time to work on it somewhere in that window.

(Actually, Heart of the OHR 2012 is two years long since it's already been announced. If you can't make a good game in that length of time, then contests aren't meant for you Wink

.)
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FnrrfYgmSchnish
Probably the Grand Poobah or something

Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 88
Location: Not here

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:57 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Slices are a stable feature. I'm not sure why you'd think otherwise.

I think he must have meant "features in the current stable version" (as opposed to nightly-only features.) I seem to remember him mentioning that he only used Ypsiliform+2 to make the game.

Moogle1
Scourge of the Seas
Halloween 2006 Creativity Winner

Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Seattle, WA

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:23 pm Post subject:

Slices were introduced in Ypsiliform (exactly a year ago today). I don't know how this slipped by everyone. _________________ Slime Salad :: Independent Game Design

Rya.Reisender
Snippy

Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 821

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:25 am Post subject:

msw188 wrote:

I think Rya makes mistakes and pisses people like Surlaw off by using generalizing words like "always" and "none".

I suppose it is a general mistake I do. I try to do it less, but people often still interpret it like that. I assume it's because I tend to exaggerate to emphasize my point.

Also obviously I know that game developers are always gamers at the same time. It's still different however. That's why I said "pure gamers" and not just gamers.

And there are more differences than just pointing out the bad and additionally adding how it could have been done better. Alone the fact that the people in an RPG maker community have more knowledge, will make them criticize things that a normal gamer usually wouldn't criticize, while they don't criticize things a normal gamer would critcize.
For example take graphic/music 'ripping'. A gamer doesn't care about that at all, as long as it is looks/sounds good, especially if he doesn't know the graphics are from somewhere else, while game developers will complain about it simply because they know it involves a lot less effort being put into the game. It's also the other way around, if the game contains lots of "modification" to the engine that haven't been seen in the community before at all, the community will usually praise it, knowing how much effort it must have been, while I gamer might just go and say "It doesn't play very nice."
There are more differences that I've noticed which even I find strange. Pure gamers tend to like easier game more while developers seem to like higher difficulties more. I'm not sure why, but in mixed communities that have both gamers and developers you often see gamers complaining about a game being too hard, while developers think it was very easy. Also I got this generally from this community, too. The games tend to be quite hard and if I tell some friends about those games they usually have a problem with the difficulty, but when I suggest that the game should be made easier, I often got turned down by the reasoning "It's supposed to be hard, that's a developer's choice!".
It's just all those small things, but it is a difference.
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Aethereal
SHUT UP.
Elite Designer

Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 928
Location: Gone! I pop in on occasion though.

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:39 am Post subject:

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Spoon Weaver

Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 421
Location: @home

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:43 am Post subject:

TMC
On the Verge of Insanity

Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 3240
Location: Matakana

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:47 am Post subject:

Just wondering whether you accidentally posted this in the wrong thread, or what. _________________ `"It is so great it is insanely great."`

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