Castle Paradox

Shadowiii · **It's been real.** Joined: 14 Feb 2003 Posts: 2460

Eggie -

After reading over quite a few of your posts and the responding posts, I really wanted to speak out to you. The reason I'm not PMing this to you is because your user is on a 2-week ban, as well as the fact that most of the stuff I'm going to write applies to many members of the community as a whole. I seriously considered your position in the arguments you participated in, and I'd like to make a few comments, observations, and conclusions.

Before you read this, however, I'd like you to do something for me. Take a deep breath. Calm down. Try to calm your hatred or dislike towards me long enough to consider what I am saying. I am going to speak to you in an unbiased, uncritical way. I'm just calling it how I see it. Hopefully you can take this seriously and realize that many of us aren't trying to offend you, we are trying to help you.

1. CP is not out to get you.

I just though you should understand this. CP, in a whole, as a community, is a community of critics. Thats basically why this OHR community was created, so that game designers with different backgrounds and experience could comment on other people's work and accomplishments. I understand that, after you posted up some of your art, people offered a lot of criticism. Some was out of line, but most was perfectly decent. Youru reaction, however, was inappropriate. You must realize that when you post on these forums many people here are professional artists, or very good amatures. Many know good art when they have seen it, and some actually do art for a living. In almost all the cases, criticism towards you or your work is ment in a positive sense. There are blatant exceptions; when someone posts a one line thread saying "It sucks." for example. But you must mature up, take a deep breath, and take in what we have told you not as an attack on you or your art, but as a guide to help you improve. No one here wants you to stop drawing. No one here wants to you stop making games. If anything, we all want to help you grow and improve, and we are doing the best we can to help you with that.

2. No one here hates you.

Although this may not be entirely correct, I can assure you that the majority here don't hate you. When you first entered the community we didn't look down on you. You weren't fingered from the start. In the main sense, many of us are probably confused by your reactions, not angry. We don't understand why you won't take our advice seriously, or at all. Your replies are irrational and seem like you didn't even read what we said at all. Again, we aren't here to get you, we are here to help you. As a community, we aspire to help raise everyone up the best we can. I personally do not hate you. I will admit that I consider you less mature than many members here, but overall there are no feelings of hatred towards you.

3. People don't know what you are thinking when you post.

This is a pretty important one. I usually get it all the time when people don't understand what I say when I post. I remember a while back in some self-help book, they were talking about converstaions. They compared it to an iceberg; speech was only the tip. Facial expressions, emotion in speech, all that was hidden benieth the water and we'd have to dive to get it. Posts on a message board would be more like a little plant on the iceberg tip. WE can't even here what you are saying. You (we all) need to re-read all of our posts before we submit them. We need to look at them and think, "If I was a complete idiot reading this, would I know what this person was talking about? Would the point I was trying to convay get across correctly?" This is very important. It is difficult to express emotion over a message board (smilies dont' really help) but we can at least try our best. If you post something that appears mean, like "You are all a bunch of irrational JERKS!" Even ifyou really didn't mean it that harsh, many of us interperate as attacks on US. A better idea might be to say, "I really was offended by your comments. Would you please rephrase them so that I can understand what you ment?" This solves the problem. The former only offends.

4. Act like an adult.

Many members (including myself) often forget this. Sometimes you just have to take the pain. If you remember one of the rules of conduct, it stated "Everything is your fault." Basically it said that if someone was offended, angered, or confused by your post, it is your fault. You posted it. And you must take responsibility for what you did. I understand that a few of us were a bit mean to you (myself included). But there are times we have to just take a deep breath and move on. I have a Tae-Kwon-Do teacher who is perhaps the biggest bully I have ever met. He's a 56 year old man who LOVES to verbally abuse anyone who enteres his Dojo. Even little 5 year old kids aren't spaired from his criticism. At first, I was offened by his rude, vulger, and offensive remarks. Then I realized something: they really didn't mean anything. He was just doing this because this was how he has acted his entire life. His words stung, but there want's any poison in them. He really didn't truely mean what he said, he was just saying it to be funny or because he liked it.
Lots of us are like that (myself included). Though many times we say things that way appear way offensive, usually it isn't as extreme as it appears. There are times you have to read into what we have written, and realize that when we are calling you a spammer, it is really a plea that you'll stop posting immature things so we can treat you as an equal. Which brings me to my next topic.

5. Spam

Yes, Spam. The logo of Hamster Republic. I personally think we should change what spam is called on this website (maybe cheese or something) because Spam really isn't that bad, plus James loves it. But the point is that Spam is really a serious problem. Not only if you post it does it make you look immature, but it also shows you aren't really thinking about what you are doing when you post. Here are a few guidelines/ideas to follow when you consider posting something that may be spam:
A. Is it benifical to the community?
B. Is it OHR/topic related?
C. It it worth the other member's time when they read it?
D. Is it something that if I were a moderator I would close?
E. Is it just plain useless?
F. Did you use good grammar and spelling?

After you go through all this and you pass a majority of them, you should probably consider posting. If you failed a few, reconsider your topic and write again.
Now I'm not saying spam (or mild spamming) is completely bad. I know that I do it. Sometimes we post stuff that is just made to be funny, or silly, or ironic. This is fine, if it is kept within reason. Remember Haggard on Zantetsuken (those who remember)? He was the king of cynical humor. He really shut down (in a clever way) all the stupid, dumb, crappy posts. Taken out of context, some of his posts could be considered spam. But the point is he restrained himself. If you are going to post spam, do so as infrequently as possible. And ESPECIALLY don't start new topics where the only purpose is to spam. If you are going to say something pointless/semi-pointless do so in a reply, don't start a whole thread of spam.

Now I'll pull out my favorite phrase again. The ultimate spam-killer.

"Think Before You Post."
And that about covers it all.

Now that you've read all this (or clicked off it because you got bored), I might as well offer you a few suggestions on what to do when you get back.

1. Apologize. Yes, I know that it wasn't all your fault (believe me, it wasn't). Yes, I know there are some real jerks out there (me being one of them at times) who were mean to you. But saying you are sorry is the mature thing to do. It'll certainly lift you up in our eyes and make us feel like, "Hey, he's allright afterall."

2. Take Criticism without Offence. As stated above, no one is out to get you. There may be one or two people that are (I am not one), but as a majority we are really on your side. Instead of reading our comments as just words, try to read what we are really saying. We are trying the best we can in the only way we can to help you improve. Please try to realize that.

3. Listen when people post. Many of us don't. Some of us jump right in and start arguing without hearing the whole story. Try to think from the other person's point of view when you read their posts. What do they know about you? Only what you have said on these boards, and how you have presented it. In a sense this is your 2nd personality, the one you created on these boards. Try to realize who they are talking to, and why they said such things. Then take in what they say rationally and reply. And for the record, yelling back never works on a message board. Ever. The quickest way to resolve an arugment is to find out WHAT the problem is and solve it. Period.

In closing, I'd like to apologize for my behavior. I was impolite to you on many ocasions, and I am sorry for that. I never ment to offend you seriously, and I am sorry that you got banned. I really hope that you don't quit the community and certainly hope you don't stop making games. (on a side note, remember what I said above in my review of your game. I'm not trying to put you down, I'm trying to make you stronger for next time) You have talent, and you have courage to post up your pictures for all of us to see (I still haven't). Now you just need to take in what we say like someone who is mature, and realize that we are all here for you.

We are on your side, no matter what we say. Don't forget that.

~Shadowiii
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But enough talk, have at you!

Hunter Green · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 9:10 pm Post subject:

the post says "to eggie' but there are a lot of people who could stand to learn from this. Myself included.
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Uncommon · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 9:17 pm Post subject:

Indeed, indeed. Perhaps we were a bit too harsh with Eggie, eh, Hunter? This is not to say that he didn't participate in the problem, but I'm sure we didn't help much, either. Then again, I only told him honestly what I thought he needed to hear...

Hunter Green · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 9:46 pm Post subject:

It's really too soon to say. The validation for our actions depends on his behavior when he returns.

Offhand though, I'd say that even though things got a little out of hand, it was better to try and deal with him than to pretend to be nice to him.
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Uncommon · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 9:48 pm Post subject:

Yes. I have made no secret of my belief that masks and mindless tact are only a disservice to the other person.

Camdog · Joined: 08 Aug 2003 Posts: 606

What did eggie get banned for?

Hunter Green · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:03 pm Post subject:

Basicially, all of the things covered in the first part of this thread.
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Uncommon · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:09 pm Post subject:

Read the thread linked her from Eggie's post to the end. That was Eggie's last argument, so I figure it should give some insight as to why he was banned...
http://castleparadox.com/cgi-bin/viewtopic.php?p=11711

Inferior Minion · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:29 am Post subject:

You may be wondering why this is an announcement...or you might not because you don't care....or you figured it out alread.... Oookay...

Shadowiii's post perfectly sums up how posts should be handled. There seems to be a sudden outpour of spamming and bickering going on throughout the forum...hopefully more members will keep these things in mind and the board will clean itself up. We don't like having to moderate topics and posts. The word filter and the locking of threads are our attempts to fix some problems we've seen.

Some of you have been complaining about the word filter....this site is a public site for all age groups...sorry....my official stance (and I'm not alone here) is that although those words often leave my tounge...there are other ways to express them and the alternatives are much less offenseive for everyone.

The recent locking of threads has been an action we admins have been trying to avoid...but things are getting out of hand and we've gotta start pulling the weeds (so to speak) and in the end it's the moderators judgement on if a thread or post is worthwhile. We also look at the community's reaction in most cases (unless it's just that ridiculously pointless or offensive)...sorry in advance.

And 1 last thing...if your post is locked or deleted...please PM an Admin...we'll find out who locked it and discuss it in private. As Shadow said...we're not out to get you...we just questioned the relevance or the didn't approve of the direction the thread was going.
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The Bard · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:09 am Post subject:

Oi.... this is exact and to the point, Shadowiii made a very valid point, quite afew of us do this many times, hopefully I don't, but if I do (and I wouldn't doubt it) I'm going to be more mindful of my posts...
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"The future isn't chosen by a throw of the dice, it is made from the concious decisions of you and me..." -Fong.

CyberneticDreams · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:12 am Post subject:

heh well i know exactly why eddie did what he did.

the same darn reason i was reviving all those threads...i wasn't being treated equally.

u guyz knoe wat in talking about.
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"For the last time...its dreadlord! NOT DrugLord!" -Dreadlord (warcraft 3)

The Bard · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:17 am Post subject:

Alright, Mikhael, I told you in person, now I'm telling you in writing, write properly, your writing like that on purpose! THAT SHOULD BE ANOTHER POINT! People (Namely CyberneticDreams=Mikhael) should write properly.. I find it annoying how people write as if they were talking in slang. THat's lazy and I don't know, but I personally think the website would be more easily read if we went without it! But I'm not a moderator so I don't really have a say....
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"The future isn't chosen by a throw of the dice, it is made from the concious decisions of you and me..." -Fong.

Uncommon · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:18 am Post subject:

We never treated Eggie unequally. We never treated you unequally, either. You were both given the same oppurtunities that everyone else had, Eggies just messed them up. You, Cyber, still have a chance, so don't waste it.

CyberneticDreams · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:21 am Post subject:

Ur just lucky i aint spamming Big grin

People have a choice...type properly...or in slang.

Itz really ur decision...in my opinion.

this was to the bard
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"For the last time...its dreadlord! NOT DrugLord!" -Dreadlord (warcraft 3)

Uncommon · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:25 am Post subject:

Call it a choice if you will, but a lot of people are going to get pissed off at you if they know you type that way on purpose. Seriously, it's terrible.